US/UA Merger Master Thread

[Bear96]

Bear,

UA never actually "merged" with PA. They purchased its London authority and its Pacific system, in effect helping break it up. The balance went to Delta.

Understood, althouth I think you and 700 are arguing semantics and it depends how you define "merge." The point is those routes, employees, equipment, etc. were "merged" into the UA system, and there were stockholder, regulatory and union issues to overcome to accomplish that.

And, perhaps UA will collapse and LCC will purchase portions of its system, effectively helping break it up, or maybe vice versa. Either way there will be regulatory, stockholder, labor, etc. issues as well.

 

[FWAAA]

Understood, althouth I think you and 700 are arguing semantics and it depends how you define "merge." The point is those routes, employees, equipment, etc. were "merged" into the UA system, and there were stockholder, regulatory and union issues to overcome to accomplish that.

Exactly. There's some pedantic "correcting" going on over semantics, but the point remains: UA's international presence is what it is today as a result of a combination of parts of PanAm with the old UA. And since nobody knows the form of any proposed transactions involving UA, it would be nice if everyone can stick to the ideas instead of focusing on the semantics.

 

[safety stud]

Since LCC's board members did the shuffle last week, and upper management at UAL changed yesterday, I look for an anouncement to be made by Tues or Weds of next week. Happy Happy Joy Joy... Look Boss, It's getting bigger....

Just my opinion...

 

[Travelpro72]

Well if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Bring it on. If we are going to merge then we'll merge. Unions promising to use all their abilities to "bring it down" is brilliant. Look at the jobs section of your local paper lately? Good luck. I had read somewhere that Parker had said he'd treat this merger different than the HP/US in terms of integrating the unions. Then went on to say he'd offer the more costly of the two. I'm guessing that would be UA's. Looking at some of their sections I'd take it ANY day over ours. Lots of changes are on the horizon. I think it will be more beneficial to work WITH each other rather than against.

 

[dariencc]

And no entities callied "Allegheny" and "Piedmont" came together in any form to form the LCC of today?

The United and USAirways of today were born decades ago, as is?

It is amazing how you can totally miss very obvious points sometimes. Let me help you connect the (very obvious) dots.

What is amazing is your lack of basic knowledge of the history of companies that you love to pontificate about. 700UW corrected you, and you still can't take the hint.

US Air and Piedmont merged, get it? Allegheny became US Air in 1979 and did not merge with Piedmont until 1988.

I thought you said you visit USAviation to learn more about the arcane subject of pilot seniority integrations. How is that working out for you? Your "law practice" must be thriving, what with your regular logons and posts on our webboard during weekday working hours.

 

[cynic]

Since LCC's board members did the shuffle last week, and upper management at UAL changed yesterday, I look for an anouncement to be made by Tues or Weds of next week. Happy Happy Joy Joy... Look Boss, It's getting bigger....

Just my opinion...

Hasn't the announcement been "imminent" for the last month or so? Eventually one of these predictions is going to come true.

 

[InternationalShannon]

I wish they'd just pull the trigger already, it's been pointed at us for so long.....
Snn is having a bad night, I suppose but I'm just really tired of the dread...
Bring it on already.

 

[Bear96]

What is amazing is your lack of basic knowledge of the history of companies that you love to pontificate about. 700UW corrected you, and you still can't take the hint.

US Air and Piedmont merged, get it? Allegheny became US Air in 1979 and did not merge with Piedmont until 1988.

So if I am understanding you, the routes and employees of Allegheny and Piedmont of yesterday did not somehow come together (i.e., "merge") to make part of the LCC of today?

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[dariencc]

So if I am understanding you, the routes and employees of Allegheny and Piedmont of yesterday did not somehow come together (i.e., "merge") to make part of the LCC of today?

Thanks for the clarification.

You made a mistake and displayed your ignorance. The above drivel has no relevance to your original posting on the subject. Some lawyer you must be.

I agree. I did not mean every merger was a success from a passenger point of view, only that they successfully figured out how to "juggle the balls" identified above by figuring out how to clear the stockholder / regulatory / etc. hurdles identified above and at least complete mergers in a technical sense. (And really I was referring to United/PanAm and Allegheny/Piedmont, although I was not clear on that.)

Standing by for more double talk.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I think without some real visionary leadership (which neither company seems to have right now,) the massive route structure would be more of a massive headache than not.



The downsizing will have to come from UAL. Both the east and west USAirways pilots' contract have minimum fleet requirements, and the company is only within about a half dozen airplanes of those minimum numbers. There is little likelihood that the USAirways pilots, even though they are at each others throats right now, would give any concessions on the contractual fleet size.

UAL, on the other hand, has no minimum fleet size requirement in their pilots' contract to the best of my knowledge.

With costs out of control (mostly due to fuel but also due to poor management) and a handsome half billion dollar quarterly loss, I think UAL will go into a prepackaged Chapter 11 as part of the merger deal. It's Parker's modus operandi, i.e. do all your "right sizing" with the help of a federal judge.

I am a strong advocate of Unions, but sometimes they go overboard. This industry is hard enough without adding things to contracts that you can’t sell this piece or not stop flying here. If this ‘piece’ is a drain on the company, then sell it. If this route is loosing money, then don’t fly it.

A company has to remain nimble to survive and some of these contracts cost the company ‘a lot’!

That is ‘one’ of the reasons LUV will always kick the ‘legacies’ in the nads. They do not have these contractual restrictions and if a route is not profitable, they stop flying it.

Then there is the ‘political’ side. I remember after 911 that some senator from pudunct GA stated that she would have denied the bail-out if she knew that her ‘home town’ would no longer be served.

This is the most regulated/deregulated business that there is.

Good Luck to us 'ALL'!

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

You made a mistake and displayed your ignorance. The above drivel has no relevance to your original posting on the subject. Some lawyer you must be.

Standing by for more double talk.

Since this is the official "merger" thread and not the "Usapa vs. Alpa" thread I'd like to point out something that has amazed me for some time- the "IAM" thread seems to be conducted in a civil manner with very little condescending comments whereas the pilots have represented themselves (at least on this board ) in a much less professional manner.

Before you start telling me to F@?$ off keep your own private war on your own private thread and the next time you try to tell me how to vote,please F$@!? off.

We all know how smart you are- we've been told.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I wish they'd just pull the trigger already, it's been pointed at us for so long.....
Snn is having a bad night, I suppose but I'm just really tired of the dread...
Bring it on already.

Hang in there Sharon.

You have an upbeat persona that may very well be infectious.
We have little control of our company’s destinies, but I wish you all the best.

Take Care
B) UT

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

This is a pivotal time for the U. In looking ahead there is much to look forward to- if UAL & US combine those of us who are U will finally be part of a "Global carrier" and not be blowing smoke. If this is stressful you may have missed the stress of the last 15 years. Things may actually be getting better!

 

[tadjr]

QUOTE
“We also believe that it is unrealistic to assume that the merger will receive Department of Justice approval. Nothing has changed since 2001 when the DOJ raised objections, and there are additional concerns over a possible reduction in coast-to-coast competition, especially the Washington, DC to Los Angeles and San Francisco routes.


You dont think that VX and B6 would be happy and willing to add flights if they think they are worth flying? If no one is willing to step up and "compete", maybe theres a reason for that....it isnt worth the $ involved to keep the routes. I'm sorry, but not every dinky city has to have air service and not every route has to be served nonstop. There is more than enough competition (if its a viable route) and denying one transaction (UA/US or DL/NW for that matter) becuase a couple cities are going to lose flights (when they might end up being dropped if the carriers dont merge anyway) is stupid on the part of the govt. If they are truly interested in making the US airline market thrive, then they need to quit "not" regulating and let the airlines work out whats best for them to survive.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

QUOTE
“We also believe that it is unrealistic to assume that the merger will receive Department of Justice approval. Nothing has changed since 2001 when the DOJ raised objections, and there are additional concerns over a possible reduction in coast-to-coast competition, especially the Washington, DC to Los Angeles and San Francisco routes."

SWA in DEN is a losing proposition for both F9 and UAL- think US and BWI 8? years ago.

They are "the Borg' and they are coming to get us and UAL and they are running out of places to go.