Management at US and UA--The Good the Bad and the Ugly

[robbedagain]

freedom, last time i chkd my furlough has nothing to do with this thread just cuz im on furlough dont mean I cant post what I want as far as comparing SWA to US there is no comparison at all SWA is as ART put it, a list of happy things and people US doesnt care for their employees let alone the pax and the mgmt own huge hefty paychks

 

[Dog Wonder]

Fortunately UA calling off talks will let the Kids in the Sandbox stay there and continue to believe they, and they alone, are the entire airline industry.

Good for the Kids and good for the rest of the industry.

 

[UPNAWAY]

am a big fan of Herb - Piney, but I don't think even 10% of the East folks could cut it working for SW. They would rebel immediately from the culture and would then ton on them. That was my point.

Funny you bring up the humility quote, something the East has in droves......another one of the points I was trying to make.

 

[SolidCactus]

Freedom,

I DID have a vested interest in US until your crack management team drove me away by making bad decisions.

I am no fan boy--never was. I was a concerned customer who was not afraid to get involved and advocate for customers AND employees. I had (and still have to most carriers) enough influence to get face to face meetings with senior management, and the organization that Piney Bob, other loyal customers and I started 6 years ago has been an effective voice for both--and we now number well over 1000 members.

You choose to be blind to the truth--I respect that. Believe whatever you want to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Doug Parker is not the brilliant leader you think him to be, and neither is Scott.

I am not going to prolong this discussion, and continue arguing with you, but I will end this by saying that Doug and company consider the employees and the customers a liability rather than an asset. They can say whatever they want but their actions speak louder than words.

The only way ANY company will succeed today is to prioritize as follows:

EMPLOYEES FIRST -- Make the employees happy and they will go the extra mile-they'll be more productive, reducing costs, and will go out of their way to make the customers happy.

CUSTOMERS SECOND -- Customers pay the bills. When you take care of the FIRST, the SECOND is much easier. Happy customers keep coming back--brings in more revenue, makes the company more profitable...therefore

SHAREHOLDERS THIRD -- When you take care of FIRST and SECOND successfully, THIRD takes care of itself......

Until Doug realizes this there is no way he can succeed long term.

He should learn from REAL leaders like Gordon Bethune, Herb Kelleher and Larry Kellner.

Nuff said.

Art is right. If you do not put the employees first, they will not give their all to the customers. Without this, the customers will never come first.

Here's the deal. US resents the frequent flyers for one reason only. FF's are the most outspoken, vocal customers. When anyone spends a small fortune with your company, they feel they deserve at the VERY LEAST - reliable, consistant service.

There was a time where US was absolutely in shambles. I'm not kidding when I say this. You know what, I think it is a lot better now. But you know what, when I spend $50K plus per year with your company, I expect reliable transportation. For about two years, US was far FAR from reliable. So you know what happens. Us FF's squak, squeek and complain. US just writes voucher upon voucher. We didnt need vouchers, we needed consistant, reliable service. What US needed to do was to send us letters explaining to us WHAT they were doing to fix the problem. We're business people for the most part. Form letters and vouchers... You know what that did - it cost US Airways a fortune and basically told us, here's $50 you'll never figure out how to use, go away.

The FF crew, not difficult people if you talk to us. Ignoring us and throwing form letters and vouchers at us. Yeah, it wont work. EVERY BUSINESS has these customers!!! They ARE the most profitable customers if you just show them some love.

Guess what. I left US for almost a year. I'm flying you guys again now. The service is great now, the planes are clean, the website works great. I even have handed out above and beyond coupons on my last flight. Unfortunately, many people will never give US a second chance...

I do think Parker may be in over his head, but he does have potential. There are a few issues... The CEO is a figure head. A CEO is successful by putting THE BEST people in the BEST positions, and allowing them to make the best decisions for the company... The people that the CEO puts in place must share his or her vision for the company, but the CEO really doesn't make the rules. The CEO can stop things, remove people, etc, but guess what. Do you know how Bernie Ebbers ran MCI Worldcom into the ground? He couldnt let people make decisions...

Parker has got the skills, but the labor problems are going to pull this airline down and he has lost so much respect from the people on the front lines. If Parker puts the right people in the right positions, and lets them do what they think is right for the company, it has a much better chance. The key is THE RIGHT PEOPLE. NOT YES MEN... Visionaries. A COO that takes over the labor relations, and solves the problems. A CMO that is the best of their breed in marketing. The VP's need to be the very best, to support the CMO and COO.

If Tempe is really the Klown Kollege that everyone makes it out to be, it's doomed. Parker will take the fall, but it will only be because he didn't put the right team in place, and let them do their jobs...

Just my opinion folks, take it for what its worth...

 

[vantheman63]

We are in a RECESSION!!!! Americans don’t want to pay for service!!! They want point A to point B at the lowest price possible !!

I know, this is some recession...the economy is even growing during this one...announced today, up another 0.9%....

Despite the jackasses in the media and the negative nancies out there predicting the doom and gloom.

Meanwhile, US is participating in the recession by stripping service, further commoditizing their product, striving for mediocrity at best....while real airlines like CO and WN are providing service, growing...and, get this, NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE DOOM AND GLOOMER/US AIRWAYS RECESSION!!!

Yeah, it's BAD out there right now....my biz is only up for my company around 37%....and I've moved the bulk of my traveling away from the commodity contrived by the kids in the sandbox to the studs from IAH....

Dear God it's bad out there...

C'mon people! Why do you keep buying doom and gloom?!?! where is it getting you? Dougie and Scottie gotta keep you down so you don't want a better life I guess....

Amazing...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080529/economy.html?.v=21

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Van you sound just like George I, this is technically not a recession-all is well.

Last time I looked gas was $4.09-how much do you have to raise prices on wine to cover the shipping?

I would guess 30%.

You sound elitist.

 

[DrBeth]

This American wants to pay for service! That statement may be true about some, but not all of us!

 

[SolidCactus]

There is no comparison to WN in my opinion. SWA is a point to point carrier with just 737s. US is a mix of Airbus and Boeing and flies the USA, Canada, the Caribbean, Mexico, and Europe as well as Latin America. SWA has HAPPPY PEOPLE because they TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES AND THE EMPLOYEES TAKE CARE OF THE COMPANY AND SWA! US mgmt is so far out that there is no returning unless a whole new mgmt team is brought in. Bring on Bethune He did wonders at CO There is a reason why the FF are leaving-- mgmt dont care about anything or anyone except COST COST COST and that so far has been horrible with US

I dont know if Southwest employees read this forum... But one day I was on a Southwest flight and I started chatting with the flight attendant. I said, "This company really fascinates me. You guy's cant have a union, right?"... She said, "You wont believe this, but we're one of the MOST unionized airlines, if not the most unionized airline in America".

Ok guys, I used to be a Supervisor at UPS (Teamsters) and spent many years Managing UFCW employees. I know this is virtually impossible... So I asked her...

"What is it Southwest does differently"?

She said, "this company cares about us. Nobody would ever even consider calling "contract" on our management. The company treats us BETTER than the conditions that are in our contract. There is no need to even look at our contract.

She told me that she was at $35 an hour after 5 years, and that on Valentines Day one year, they all received cards that said "Southwest LUV'S You" and inside was a $500 check.

I met another really friendly flight attendant. She went on to explain to me that her husband is the guy in the back of the plane doing beverage service. She said, "I love this job. They work with us. My husband and I get to work on the same trip, this way we can spend time together".

I was on a US Airways Express flight, using my miles to connect to a Southwest Flight (when I SWORE I would never fly US again). There was a deadheading flight attendant across from me. I flashed her my WN boarding pass and smiled. She opened up her purse and gave me 12 drink coupons and said, "thank you" - we appreciate your business...

I've seen deadheading pilots assisting flight attendants with beverage service and snack service. You show me any hardcore union environment where something like this could EVEN take place.

It all starts with labor.

PS, please dont turn this thread labor...

 

[vantheman63]

Van you sound just like George I, this is technically not a recession-all is well.

Last time I looked gas $4.09-how much do you have to raise prices on wine to cover the shipping?

I would guess 30%.

No doubt...the real "wild card" is "energy prices." They have to and will factor into the economy...and they will. I would also agree, the people hardest hit by gas prices are the people on "fixed incomes," salaried employees. If you have no control over your pay, I understand the fear...I do...

BUT....up to this point, the horriffic predictions of the masses have been....WRONG. No one can argue that. NO ONE.

What's more...the US Economy is, and this is available even in the doom and gloom media, "remarkably resilient." We got hammered during 9/11....and guess what? We're fine. The media said, "Hurricane Katrina will most certainly put the economy into a recession." Guess what? Didn't happen. Then there was the subprime mess....OMG, we're all doomed....nearly 3% of the mortgages are DOOMED! Funny thing happened on the way to reading the papers and reports....EVERYONE forgot to study up on banking and the mess that is the sub prime debacle...it's a relatively SMALL piece of the biz...and many of those people who got loans in the first place should NEVER have gotten them. Not to mention, there were some very silly banking policies that fueld that mess.....That's being fixed now.

Then we have Global Warming...Al Gore and others out there are profiting from scaring good people into oblivion are making LOADS of money because, "the earth is in SERIOUS jeopardy...." Hell, even CO is profiting from Global Warming for crying out loud! Meanwhile that moron from TN continues to screw US by flying his Gulfstream and not flying commercial...because in his little world, making money is more important than saving the earth...wait...isn't he making money telling all of us to save the earth? And he's not? (I love bleeding heart libs like that idiot, Al Gore)

Next up, a couple of guys names Buffet and Soros, who the world seems to love for some silly reason, decided to drive the dollar into the crapper because they hate the direction of the current leadership in the country....and drive the Euro AFTER the EU had artificially propped it up. Their stroke of genius? Only that they took advantage of inirtia....and the media bought it...and sold everyone "how terrible" things are...

Next up, the oil crisis...."oil is going to $200 a barrel." (Frankly, that would be a good thing from my vantage point.) "Now we're really f-ed" proclaims a media bent on selling doom and gloom to the public.

Funny thing though....a great number of economists publicly stated, "we believe the US Economy can actually sustain $150 per barrel oil prices with minimal damage." There is pretty much only one way you can find that piece of information...and that is to use USA Today for lining in a bird cage and read a "boring" rag like "The Economist" where they aren't tryingt to sell fear.

And, get this...Millie Vanillie and The Fat Lady are in the back, behind the scenes, tuning up their vocal chords, getting ready to sing....for the demise of this bubble known as $130 per barrel oil. Will it come back to WHERE OPEC SEES IT? $60 t0 $70 a barrel? Who knows....and even if it does, what's the next crisis that will bring an end to the earth? http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1317363,00.html

Okay....so I'm in a mood...and thats my rant...

But I'm just SOOO irritated by all this "things are soooo bad" crap. Am I in denial? Maybe....I doubt it...but if it makes others feel good to think I am, that's fine....just remember that when everyone told me "things are really bad" and I was living in blissful stupidity, building, please remember to not tax me into 27 years of craziness....simply because I chose not to participate in this f-ing "recession."

Off the box....

 

[SolidCactus]

No doubt...the real "wild card" is "energy prices." They have to and will factor into the economy...and they will. I would also agree, the people hardest hit by gas prices are the people on "fixed incomes," salaried employees. If you have no control over your pay, I understand the fear...I do...

BUT....up to this point, the horriffic predictions of the masses have been....WRONG. No one can argue that. NO ONE.

What's more...the US Economy is, and this is available even in the doom and gloom media, "remarkably resilient." We got hammered during 9/11....and guess what? We're fine. The media said, "Hurricane Katrina will most certainly put the economy into a recession." Guess what? Didn't happen. Then there was the subprime mess....OMG, we're all doomed....nearly 3% of the mortgages are DOOMED! Funny thing happened on the way to reading the papers and reports....EVERYONE forgot to study up on banking and the mess that is the sub prime debacle...it's a relatively SMALL piece of the biz...and many of those people who got loans in the first place should NEVER have gotten them. Not to mention, there were some very silly banking policies that fueld that mess.....That's being fixed now.

Then we have Global Warming...Al Gore and others out there are profiting from scaring good people into oblivion are making LOADS of money because, "the earth is in SERIOUS jeopardy...." Hell, even CO is profiting from Global Warming for crying out loud! Meanwhile that moron from TN continues to screw US by flying his Gulfstream and not flying commercial...because in his little world, making money is more important than saving the earth...wait...isn't he making money telling all of us to save the earth? And he's not? (I love bleeding heart libs like that idiot, Al Gore)

Next up, a couple of guys names Buffet and Soros, who the world seems to love for some silly reason, decided to drive the dollar into the crapper because they hate the direction of the current leadership in the country....and drive the Euro AFTER the EU had artificially propped it up. Their stroke of genius? Only that they took advantage of inirtia....and the media bought it...and sold everyone "how terrible" things are...

Next up, the oil crisis...."oil is going to $200 a barrel." (Frankly, that would be a good thing from my vantage point.) "Now we're really f-ed" proclaims a media bent on selling doom and gloom to the public.

Funny thing though....a great number of economists publicly stated, "we believe the US Economy can actually sustain $150 per barrel oil prices with minimal damage." There is pretty much only one way you can find that piece of information...and that is to use USA Today for lining in a bird cage and read a "boring" rag like "The Economist" where they aren't tryingt to sell fear.

And, get this...Millie Vanillie and The Fat Lady are in the back, behind the scenes, tuning up their vocal chords, getting ready to sing....for the demise of this bubble known as $130 per barrel oil. Will it come back to WHERE OPEC SEES IT? $60 t0 $70 a barrel? Who knows....and even if it does, what's the next crisis that will bring an end to the earth? http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1317363,00.html

Okay....so I'm in a mood...and thats my rant...

But I'm just SOOO irritated by all this "things are soooo bad" crap. Am I in denial? Maybe....I doubt it...but if it makes others feel good to think I am, that's fine....just remember that when everyone told me "things are really bad" and I was living in blissful stupidity, building, please remember to not tax me into 27 years of craziness....simply because I chose not to participate in this f-ing "recession."

Off the box....

van, no doubt the media beats this topic to death, and our economy is VERY resilient. But these problems are real. They do effect everyone differently though. The price of food has risen, a lot. I mean, it really works like this. If you're a single mom working full time, and you have to accept welfare - the rising prices and cost of fuel are going to have serious consequences. If you're middle class, with a nice house, and a decent car - you'll only slightly modify your behavior. What does this mean?

For companies that are not resilient, and cannot make changes FAST enough to retain profitability will fail. Those that are managed properly, and can change quickly with a changing economy... will hardly be affected.

This being said though, many will fail.

Today DOW chemical just announced a 20% price increase on all plastics, or petroleum based products. Bottled water, soda, etc will increase, anything packaged in plastic.

In short, many of us will just get used to paying more for things. We won't be eating out of garbage cans anytime soon, but unfortunately... it will be harder for some of us to adapt... It isnt the end of the world, but it has the potential to be a huge awakening. It is not a good time to carry a lot of debt. If you're moving into this new economy with very little debt, not a problem for most. But many Americans live way over their means...

 

[vantheman63]

If you're moving into this new economy with very little debt, not a problem for most. But many Americans live way over their means...

I just disagree with this....

I love debt....good debt.....I have more mortgages then 98% of everyone will have in 3 lifetimes...and while it is, at times, a juggling act trying to collect rents, at the end of the day, there isn't a SINGLE model that doesn't call this "smart money management."

The key is, most Americans have not a clue in terms of understanding the difference of good debt vs. bad debt.

A mortgage is, perhaps, the greatest hedge against inflation there is and ever will be. One SIMPLE example...think about it....

I agree, energy costs WILL factor into the economy....I love it. The cost of wood, bricks, mortar, all building materials...what are they going to do? That's right, they will increase....

Guess what that means for my properties??? Exactly...they just got more valuable...cost of replacement goes up....yadda, yadda, yadda....

Meanwhile, my mortgages just stay the same cost....while housing costs, replacement costs....and the costs for those looking for housing goes up.

I understand what you are saying Solid...and I understand what BeCareful is saying....I think he/she is a tool for calling me an elitist...but thats okay...here's more elitist attitude...I don't really care what he/she thinks about me. LOL

My point is this....very simply....stop buying into negatie hoopla...it goes NO WHERE.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Am I in denial? Maybe....I doubt it.

Good for you if things are going well.

You however seem to be oblivious to some of the more common concerns of the less than well off as you.

If this economic crisis of 9/11 proportions for the airlines doesn't affect you-bravo. But your cavalier responses do reek of a certain class smugness that can change with time and circumstances.

Again, good for you, however your unrealistic grasp on how things are going may blind you to future economic shifts(sorry to sound so vague as usa320...you know who).

Good luck to you!

Sounds like a good time to buy a Ferrari.

 

[vantheman63]

Good for you if things are going well.

You however seem to be oblivious to some of the more common concerns of the less than well off as you.

If this economic crisis of 9/11 proportions for the airlines doesn't affect you-bravo. But your cavalier responses do reek of a certain class smugness that can change with time and circumstances.

Again, good for you, however your unrealistic grasp on how things are going may blind you to future economic shifts(sorry to sound so vague as usa320...you know who).

Good luck to you!

Sounds like a good time to buy a Ferrari.

You just DO NOT get it do you?

Life is ALL about an attitude....you can chose to participate or you can chose not to. The choice is your and yours alone.

US Airways has decided to participate...and sell the rank and file on a life of accepting the cards they are delt. (How do I voice my thoughts on that? "Cavalier," "awesome?!?!" or "wow, that's really sad?")

And you call me an elitist...and tell me to go buy a Ferrari....and my crime is....deciding I don't want to be a part of some horrific, end of the world down turn where there will be LOADS of suffering? That makes me an elitist? And buying myself a Ferrari (or a second Jaguar) makes me....unrealistic? Blind to future economic shifts? Cavalier? Smug?

Or does it make you guilty of class envy?

I dunno....

Hey, if it works for you to call me...lets see...."smug, cavalier, unrealistic, elitist".....did I miss any??? LOL "Jerk" maybe? "Ferrari buying punk" maybe? (I'm a Jag guy by the way...RI is too small of a place for a Ferrari.)

Seriously....all kidding aside....I'm not saying things aren't challenging....I'm not saying there aren't changes. I'm not saying some changes aren't painful. I'm not saying things can be uncomfortable. I'm not saying rising energy costs aren't hitting people. I'm not saying ANY of that.

What I'm saying, which you've deemed "elitist, cavalier, smug and unrealistic," is that "life is what you make of it." I know for me, I enjoy feeling that I can call the shots, that I don't have to live my life worrying about things COMPLETELY out of my control, like the cost of a gallon of gasoline.

What IS in my control is my ability to be productive, to go out and make good...and to adapt to the change and wokr hard to be a positive person for our society.

If that makes me an elitist....or smug....or unrealistic....or cavalier...then color me guilty as charged.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

You just DO NOT get it do you?

I do get it.

You live in your world and I live in mine.

Apparently yours is better - good for you.

What you seem to not realize is what George I also did not realize(as much as I respect him) and it cost him an election, is that things for what I believe to be the majority and in my case particularly are getting worse.

The airline industry as well as the trucking industry etc.

Things are costing more - substantially more - so to trumpet the recession proof wine industry is a bit inflammatory to those who are not so "recession proof" - I don't see it so it does not exist - maybe wait a few months and by the way have a good attitude.

Again good for you and your "good attitude" I also have a good attitude.

We shall all persevere.

BTW I'm a Jag guy as well.

 

[vantheman63]

You live in your world and I live in mine.

Apparently yours is better - good for you.

My last comment on the subject....

I do not, have not, will not ever think my life is better then anyone else's...at least not the way this world seems to measure "better."

For me, I do not measure "my world" in dollars....I measure my happiness and "world" in terms of freedom.

I'm constantly amazed at how the world and how some people place value on various things....I've seen family members litterally go crazy over losing $100....and then look at me oddly when I question them for waisting 2 or 3 hours of their life watching television.

At the end of the day, there are a great many things that are replaceable. I personally believe the greatest renewable resource on this planet is money. Think about it....a person can get cars back, houses back, money back...you name, it, they can get it back. Care to guess how many millionaires and billionares have been bankrupt?

Meanwhile, there is one resource we can NEVER get back....only one thing is spent and its gone forever....time.

Yet the masses seem to care less about blowing through 3 hours of their lives watching Days Of Our Lives.....or bitching and complaining....while losing $100 is just Gawd-awful.

I don't think my world is "better" then yours or anyone's. I do value my freedom and time above all else, especially money. I also value my ability to give back to our world and our society. I value the fact that I can donate to the causes I want to. That's where I get my "jollies."

If I've done anything better then someone else it is this: I've made the choice not to accept mediocrity. I've made the choice not to let the world and the world's bad news run my life.

I'll let those who don't feel worthy have those positions. I'm worth EVERY penny of a first class seat, a nice car, multiple homes and great places to live...and I'm so blessed. But in no way do I think I'm better or my life is better....quite the opposite. I've simply made different choices.

I'm out........