US Pilots Labor Topic-Aug 1-5

[EastUS]

The only solution is to put you in power.

Indeed!..That's the ticket! Heck...while we're at it, let's have some more, good old Loyalty Oaths and even some Party Purges to ensure that no one with even ANY semblance of a spine, that doesn't literally burst into tears whenever pressured/etc, ever serves in ANY union capacity whatsoever!

USA320 "However, if ALPA is re-elected (now that the new Representatation campaign has started) their Constitution and By-Laws permits the Union to permanently ban certain pilots from union membership so they can never be elected or hold a union position again." Folks....you just can't make this kind of stuff up. :blink:

This is simply and literally, just plain unbelievable hew heights of the purest BS.......Although, now that I think on it a bit, it's actually pretty standard, and utterly pathetic fare, for Alpa and it's imps and apostles 😉

 

[Dog Wonder]

For the good of every pilot everywhere.

Put this man in charge.

 

[EastUS]

For the good of every pilot everywhere.

Put this man in charge.

Indeed. Seriously though...I'd encourage many more posts of the sort offered, and made in as many venues as possible. I can think of NO finer way to refresh everyone's memories as to exactly what they had, and certainly could expect again under Alpa, and of course...refresh their visceral responses as well.

 

[EastUS]

Ok, Cherpy, I've just about had enough of unbiased "un-facts" and them touting them. Fact is, unbiased facts aren't "facts" at all. They're bold-faced lies meant to deceive.


All pitchers are liars or crybabies. Yogi Berra

"They're bold-faced lies meant to deceive." If any had the least doubts about that...note that not so much as a single counterpoint, or even attempted layering-over with BS came in response to your post.

 

[Megasnoop]

Works?! That dear sir depends on how one defines "works". ALPA and its minister would likely express in most certain terms that democracy does NOT work. In my ALPA experience, I never once felt ALPA believed the pilots are smart enough to make democracy work.

Thats why ALPA wasnt a democracy, it didnt have to answer to the rank and file. They didn't have to control 3500 pilots, only 21 "Reps/officers", to get their way. Pump them full of ALPA sunshine and FPL perks and you get them hooked like a dope addict. Like a banana republic, not willing to trust the rank and file with direct elections of local officers. Reps voted on MEC Chairmen and ALPA President, not the rank and file. Even Teamsters, their International president is elected by the rank and file, one member, one vote. When rank and file tried to remove Local CLT officers who werent doing what they werre elected to do, ALPA Natl set up roadblocks to protect the Natl suck-ups. The CLT recall that never happened. First time, ALPA Natl said the recall resolution never got to them correctly. That cost 90 days. Then instead of having LC meeting 90 days later as required by ALPA constitution, ALPA Natl rope-a-doped, calling the last one a informational meeting, not an LEC meeting, so no agenda items. But when local officers attempted to do the will of the pilots in PHL, their entire LEC got removed in trusteeship, replaced with ALPA loyalists.

I bet this comes from someone who was fired and got there job back and wants a job at ALPO national and loves the company for giving his job back and is a traitor to his fellow pilots. This is all BS. I have never seen such strong support for USAPA. No one listens to you anymore!!!!

The support for USAPA is quite amazing. Theres that 10% like a320pilot making a lot of noise. Discipline cases back in 2007 were handled by Cleary and Parella. No termination was sustained back then. One termination was reversed at the VP level. I dont know names. Cleary saved his job.

One thing I didnt notice is A320pilot commenting on my exposure of the latest Biased "Facts" lies, which downgraded both Thueur and Parella, then made up a story that they were enriching themselves to $46 and $60/year. I guess the "truth" is more powerful than "unbiased Truths." Not all East pilots are totally informed, but you give them the truth and let them compare that with the lies and they draw the right conclusions. We all react very poorly to liable and slander once we know the truth. That latest "Truth" whopper didnt sit well in the International brieifing room last week. But A320pilot gets every chance to respond to why hes supporting fabrications. Any bets on if he will?

There is some truth to this I believe, are former APLO leaders had pretty much one goal ,which was to get in to national, regardless of what the line pilot wanted. That is no longer true we finally have people that represent the line pilot. Democracy works

Climbing that union ladder. It was sickening to watch. Beebe made it to the top (almost), knocking down an extra $150+K/yr in cash allowance, only to be smacked down by the rank and file voting ALPA off the island. Pure union democracy can be a beautiful thing. You can observe a lot by just watching. Yogi Berra

 

[Metroyet]

Thats why ALPA wasnt a democracy, it didnt have to answer to the rank and file. They didn't have to control 3500 pilots, only 21 "Reps/officers", to get their way. Pump them full of ALPA sunshine and FPL perks and you get them hooked like a dope addict. Like a banana republic, not willing to trust the rank and file

You can observe a lot by just watching. Yogi Berra

So, after relating that sentiment to the rest of us on the information super-highway, How do you feel about the "rank and file" deciding whether or not USAPA continues with the addington appeal? After all it's their money Seham has been given unfettered access to.

Are your MIGS collectively smart enough to make that choice in your opinion? If so, Let them vote. If not...well, wasn't that what ALPA thought?

Should USAPA MIGS get to vote on going forward with the appeal. Yes or No?

 

[Megasnoop]

Nycbusdriver said: "If those fees are imposed (HP_FA doesn't think the figure will stand...only less than half), it will not come out of the east pockets. It will come out of all pockets. Every pilot covered by contracts administered by USAPA will have this fee charged."

USA320Pilot comments: According to a Pilotloop post the Leonidas Group is award of this point and they have made Judge Wake aware this point. The Leonidas position is that it is unfair for West pilots to have their dues pay them self damages. Judge Wake has a lot of discretion and power here. In my opinion based on his sentiment, he could write an order forcing damages to be paid by the East pilots to the West pilots because of the DFR guilty verdict and "class action" aspect to the damages trial.

Thanks for your “comments,†pilot. Where did that come from? Out of another Biased “Facts?†“According to a Pilotloop post the Leonidas Group.†More reliable “sources?†As off-the-wall as Wake is, I doubt if hes going to attempt to rewrite new constitutional law on germane expenses. He has little discretion and power here. To paint "East pilots" as a group to support "West pilots?" Youve got to be kidding. So who doesn’t have to pay? Maybe the Addington 6? But werent they all members in good standing? Wake’s in uncharted areas, especially if he makes it an East Vs West thing. That dog wont hunt. Anyone can claim they were against DOH and really supported the NIC, LOL! I swear my loyalty to the NIC! I never wanted that bad-axx DOH! BTW, there wasn’t a “guilty†verdict, the “class action†for damages (what damages?) are only for the “6.â€

USA320Pilot comments: However, if ALPA is re-elected (now that the new Representatation campaign has started) their Constitution and By-Laws permits the Union to permanently ban certain pilots from union membership so they can never be elected or hold a union position again. I believe if ALPA is re-elected that is exactly what will happen to the former RC4/Hardliners.

That’s lunacy. First, if you ban a pilot from membership, he NEVER has to pay dues or MX fee. 2nd, you need to read the ALPA constitution. Theirs a 1-year only look-back on evil deeds. Last I checked, ALPA’s been off property for 15 months. Sorry, Charlie (as in Charlie Tuna, I have no idea what your name is), no ALPA Kangaroo court there.

First, let me commend you on your formatting skill, or lack thereof.
Second, I'm not your son.
And third, it's quite obvious now after reading your post that wisdom does not necessarily come with age.

A bit testy today, hp?

East metal: All A330s have two
But most transatlantic flights carry IROs, effectively eliminating one jumpseat for "guest" jumpseat riders.

NYC, Im not sure what difference it makes. According to the West trash talkers, we don’t let West pilots JS anyway. But on your last item, T-A flights, even when full, Ive seen our C/Os let 2 JSers ride. IRO is up front for T/O, Climb, appr and land. We rotate the Envoy rest seat with the extra JSer. Once last summer we had 2 West pilots (husband and wife) on board going on vacation. While you can talk politics at FL 340, JS denial should never be used as a political tool. Maybe the West needs to pass that on to their former MEC Chairman who still doesnt get that.

We made too many wrong mistakes. Yogi Berra

 

[HPearlyretiree]

So, why do you think Wake is off the wall?

Oh yeah, because he did his job and found USAPA guilty of DFR.

But, really, do you know the man? Have you read his cases?

Any judge would have ruled the same way, unless some union goombas persuaded him otherwise.....

 

[nic4us]

East metal:

E190s have one jumpseat

All Airbus 319/320/321 have two

Some 737s have two...depends on the tail number

All 757s have one, except the three former ATA birds which have two

All 767s have two

All A330s have two

But most transatlantic flights carry IROs, effectively eliminating one jumpseat for "guest" jumpseat riders.

Thanks, It seems the east jumpseat capacity is a little less accomodating than the West as all or almost all our entire fleet has two. Plus West pilots can ride on an open F/A jumpseat allowing OAL to sit up front if there are three or more request and at least one is a West pilot.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Judge Wake has a lot of discretion and power here.

Judge Wake will attempt to follow the law, and if USAPA is liable for damages, then the group that USAPA represents will be responsbile. Judge Wake cannot go rewriting the RLA to suit the west pilots as much as you would like to spread that FUD (for which you are enormously famous.)

When will you finally get it that the tripe you post around here amounts to about zero credibility. I'm surprised the west pilots haven't asked you to put a sock in it. Having you on their side simply fardens the resolve of the east pilots to fight on.

But of course, you will never understand that. You have no idea of the animosity you engender on the east. Do you ever look in behind the doors in the cockpit overhead and see whose name comes up over and over. There's your east sentiment. Get a clue.

 

[A320 Driver]

HP-FA,

HP-FA said: "It seems that the previous arguments about ALPA really didn't deal with ALPA itself, but rather the people elected, appointed or volunteering their time to help their other pilots. A lot of the same people are doing the same type of work for USAPA as they did with ALPA and if the name changed to Joe Blow's Labor Union it is likely the same people would still be doing similar work. So I contend that most of the problems are really with the pilot's themselves in that not enough of the workforce offers themselves for election, appointment, volunteering for positions with the union or even taking the time to fully consider the various issues confronting you in your workplace and voting and making your considered opinions known to your fellow pilots. Change comes from within, not from changing the name or changing the firm that acts as General Counsel to the union."

USA320Pilot comments: I agree with your post and I believe your comments are accurate. It's not the name on the union door that is the problem, it's the same people running the union. However, if ALPA is re-elected (now that the new Representatation campaign has started) their Constitution and By-Laws permits the Union to permanently ban certain pilots from union membership so they can never be elected or hold a union position again. I believe if ALPA is re-elected that is exactly what will happen to the former RC4/Hardliners.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

You're dreaming or halucinating...I can't really tell from here.


Driver B)

 

[Piedmont1984]

Megasnoop

You make some very good points, as do some others who post here regularly or on occassion. I don't know if you are an officer or BPR rep in USAPA or not. But this USAPA policy of not engaging in internet forums is poor strategy and flawed policy.

Even more flawed is USAPA's decision not to have a pilot forum on their own website. Best I can tell, this and Pilotloop have become the substitutes. Pilotloop even more so because anonymity is not an option. These forums are the virtual crew meetings of today's internet age and commuting lifestyle.

USA320Pilot has made good use of this on the other forum, with no counter from someone in USAPA's hierarchy. ALPA supporters have also chimed in. Only JJ, one of USAPA's founders has posted there. But JJ gets a bit defensive when his position is attacked and so his posts become belligerent sounding and lose credibility.

I have encouraged USAPA's elected to take advantage and participate but to no avail. Internet "trash talk" can go a long way in undermining a union's image if left unapposed. Remember that USAPA would have lost had just a few hundred voted the other way.

Many more of us log in here and at Pilotloop, compared to attending meetings, to take the pulse of what other pilot's are thinking and saying. The ALPA loyalists are making a full court press on the Loop. Rank and filers are listening. USAPA's elected are conspicuously absent.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[fr8tmastr]

ALPA will ban certain pilots from the union?

Now that is definitely the ALPA that we have all come to know and love.

After all that is the same kind of attitude that allows would be second rate dictators to give away someones pension without a vote

ALPA rules

 

[oldiebutgoody]

With the reappearance of certain posters here and elsewhere, I'm thinking that ALPA is commencing another FUD campaign. There is less than a year left until they can file for another CBA election. That would be just like the ALPA of old. I can only hope that others see this like I do, as sneaky as dishonest as when they were on the property before.

 

[cactusboy53]

Says who? You? You don't count for s***.

Judge Wake will attempt to follow the law, and if USAPA is liable for damages, then the group that USAPA represents will be responsbile. Judge Wake cannot go rewriting the RLA to suit the west pilots as much as you would like to spread that FUD (for which you are enormously famous.)

When will you finally get it that the tripe you post around here amounts to about zero credibility. I'm surprised the west pilots haven't asked you to put a sock in it. Having you on their side simply fardens the resolve of the east pilots to fight on.

But of course, you will never understand that. You have no idea of the animosity you engender on the east. Do you ever look in behind the doors in the cockpit overhead and see whose name comes up over and over. There's your east sentiment. Get a clue.

Touchy...touchy. It appears that the nerves are a bit raw. We have a clue, and while we are truly disappointed in the path that we have been forced down....we will get justice. Afterall, how can an experienced arbitrator, two pilot neutrals, a federal judge, and nine impartial jurors be wrong?