US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[Schultz]

(MDA Law Suit)

All of the filings are a matter of public record just like the Addington case. The dismissal of all but the last charge was a blood bath.

The discovery is progressing painfully slow. The plaintiffs are running close on their dead line of Sept 30. No it is not looking good at all.

The plaintiffs are quite happy how the case is proceeding. Apparently your not.

 

[Phoenix]

Exactly.

Yeah... Exactly!

 

[traderjake]

The cash cow that is/was (even in bankruptcy) USAirways was not about to be killed.

Anyone who questions the total disconnect from reality of USAPA and it's supporters see above.

The only cash cow seen here is pimped by Flight Attendants.

 

[hp_fa]

The only cash cow seen here is pimped by Flight Attendants.

Excuse me?

 

[traderjake]

Excuse me?

Inflight promotion of Bank of America credit cards is called Cash Cow.

F/As get cash for every completed application.

Pimped was a poor choice of words but I think forcing a credit card commercial on a captive audience is offensive.

 

[ClueByFour]

East to AMR/UAL?

If that happens, you guys will regret Seeham. Because regardless of McCaskill-Bond (if you believe Seeham), the stapler is perfectly usable by the majority. The irony would be nothing (and I do mean nothing) short of stunning.

 

[hp_fa]

Pimped was a poor choice of words but I think forcing a credit card commercial on a captive audience is offensive.

I'll agree with both of those statements.

 

[CactusFlyr]

Couple things, Hate. Regardless how MDA turns out in court, Nic and his attorney are getting a diifferent look at the real status of MDA pilots in May 2005 and he still has jurisdiction. As he said, no 2 seniority integrations are the same and they all turn on the facts. "Facts" can change. Arbitration testimony shows Nic was confused by the 3 lists. I don't think it rises to fraud level, but obviously to DFR level.



To get hired, not exactly, since there were other non-AAA pilots flying MDA. ALPA treated all U pilots at MDA as AAA active, belonging to PHL or CLT LECs. Company did the same. Glass admitted under oath they were active U employees. Im not sure why everything revolves around "our" MEC. ALPA Natl was the CBA. ALPA Natl made all the decisions, our FPLers were rubber stamps. ALPA set up the MDA/CEL status as active PHL/CLT members. They wanted the dues, that's why they listed them as active AAA. Now its come back to haunt them in court. Don't take the next as 100% correct because I wasnt at MDA or any of the others, but there were some representation turf wars going on, I think involving IBT. Everyone wanted the dues money.



Its all being held close to the vest, so how do you have info contrary.



I won't discuss the rumor. One thing with a split, all this bull will end and we can find new fake names to argue with. If we're in APA and your back in ALPA, it will be almost immediately and without a vote. You can argue with UAL and we'll argue with AMR or vice-versa. For you, you'd still have the new modified ALPA merger policy to deal with. Don't expect another NIC. For us, it's McCaskill and Allhegany-Mohawk. There will never be another NIC or AMR/TWA debacle in this industry.

And for the PM about "outing" one of you, when you use the same moniker on 3 different chats, where you use your real name, it's easy to figure out whose who. I post on 4 others, 2 require my real name, but I don't use monikers.

I have not posted on these boards in approximately a year. There is no point, but unless you were part of the TWA-AA combination, don't compare it to the HP-AAA combination. Not even close. You got what you got, TWA got what AA gave them.

 

[USA320Pilot]

ClueByFour makes a good point. If USAPA is successful in its bid to change the Nicolau Award and gets the court to permit seniority to be changed inside a contract...then what would stop United or APA from electing a new Collective Bargaining Agent? Then the majority pilot group could impose their will on the minority, i.e. the United or American pilots could staple every US Airways pilot to the bottom of the combined seniority list. Maybe some people should be careful what they wish for. After all...USAPA would have taught the United or American pilots how to do this.

What USAPA is trying to do would have 300 West pilots integrated into the bottom of the combined list and 1,400 West pilots stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Reed Richards]

ClueByFour makes a good point. If USAPA is successful in its bid to change the Nicolau Award and gets the court to permit seniority to be changed inside a contract...then what would stop United or APA from electing a new Collective Bargaining Agent? Then the majority pilot group could impose their will on the minority, i.e. the United or American pilots could staple every US Airways pilot to the bottom of the combined seniority list. Maybe some people should be careful what they wish for. After all...USAPA would have taught the United or American pilots how to do this.

What USAPA is trying to do would have 300 West pilots integrated into the bottom of the combined list and 1,400 West pilots stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

So…..if “USAPA is successful" are you going to petition the Merger Committee to place you in your Nic position on the list? Inquiring minds want to know!

RR

 

[john john]

ClueByFour makes a good point. If USAPA is successful in its bid to change the Nicolau Award and gets the court to permit seniority to be changed inside a contract...then what would stop United or APA from electing a new Collective Bargaining Agent? Then the majority pilot group could impose their will on the minority, i.e. the United or American pilots could staple every US Airways pilot to the bottom of the combined seniority list. Maybe some people should be careful what they wish for. After all...USAPA would have taught the United or American pilots how to do this.

What USAPA is trying to do would have 300 West pilots integrated into the bottom of the combined list and 1,400 West pilots stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

USAPA is trying to go with the gold standard of seniority by DOH. In the airline and union world this how it is done. Every employee in the airline world goes by this standard. When this standard is not followed law By-laws and constitutions and YES unions were change.ALPA national should of had clear cut merger language and not change it like underpants

 

[ROACLT]

ClueByFour makes a good point. If USAPA is successful in its bid to change the Nicolau Award and gets the court to permit seniority to be changed inside a contract...then what would stop United or APA from electing a new Collective Bargaining Agent? Then the majority pilot group could impose their will on the minority, i.e. the United or American pilots could staple every US Airways pilot to the bottom of the combined seniority list. Maybe some people should be careful what they wish for. After all...USAPA would have taught the United or American pilots how to do this.

What USAPA is trying to do would have 300 West pilots integrated into the bottom of the combined list and 1,400 West pilots stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

The reason DOH is being applied is because it has stood in court as fair in numerous cases and is the preeminent system used by organized labor. It is quantifiable and objective.

 

[N924PS]

USAPA is trying to go with the gold standard of seniority by DOH. In the airline and union world this how it is done. Every employee in the airline world goes by this standard.

Incorrect.

See USAir/Trump Shuttle (or NIC 1 if you prefer)

See DL/NW Arbitration

DOH may be "quantifiable and objective" but was not seen as "fair and equitable" in the above or NIC 2.

 

[Poug Darker]

From the restructuring agreement July 2002:

Job Opportunities—
Mid-Atlantic Airways ...
Additional Bidding
Provisions Notwithstanding any other provisions of the ALPA Restructuring
Agreement, the following additional provisions apply to pilots on
the US Airways pilot seniority list:

• Provision will be made to permit a US Airways pilot who would
otherwise not have been furloughed to bid to an MDA vacancy
in order to eliminate the furlough of a junior pilot who is not
then on furlough. (Subject to resolution of Mainline training
holds/training early/TDY/moving expense issues applicable to
these pilots).

Just pointing out it was possible to go to MDA w/out being furloughed.

Thank you for pointing this out. When the assertion was made here that you had to be furloughed to fly at MDA, I thought that was wrong, too.
I remember considering it, then dismissing it after researching a little. Obviously, the pay was substandard, but also if you bid it and were awarded it, you couldn't bid back until some other triggering event (I think it had to do with recalling all the furloughs - not sure - memory is a terrible thing...). But you couldn't just bid back after your training freeze was over, like is usually done.
But the main point is that non-furloughed mainline guys "could" bid MDA. However, I don't think anybody did.
Cheers.

 

[john john]

Incorrect.

See USAir/Trump Shuttle (or NIC 1 if you prefer)

See DL/NW Arbitration

DOH may be "quantifiable and objective" but was not seen as "fair and equitable" in the above or NIC 2.

Trump Shuttle DL/NW brought a lot to the table there bargaining was weighted. *HP* LAS PHX SHARES