US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[Hate2fly]

As I am not intimately familiar with the whole MDA thing let me just make this observation.

My question as to whether any MDA pilot is senior to Coello has not been answered so I will assume no MDA pilot was senior to him.

Active or furloughed does not matter in regards to the Nic if you were junior to Coello. Sue ALPA all you want. What reversable error is there and what damages can be claimed even if they misrepresented your status as furloughed when you consider yourself active because you worked for MDA.

For arguements sake, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say MDA pilots were active USAirways employees. So what, they were not mainline and even if you consider them mainline, they were not in group II our higher aircraft, as were all West pilots, and furloughed east pilots had a refusal right to any aircraft less than group II. MDAs pay, I would have to assume was less, and I would venture to guess that an MDA captain made less than a group II FO.

So the question becomes, as an active employee, does an MDA pilot have a greater expectation at the former USAirways than Coello, who is senior to them, and retained rights guaranteed by his seniority above them. I would say the answere is no, and therefore they had no greater expectation at the new combined company.

If the arguement you are making is that MDA was active, and therefore the junior MDA pilot should be slotted above Odell, with all the furloughed east pilots senior to that position also placed above Odell, you have a very presumptuous line of reasoning, and a misunderstanding of the tenants of how Nicolau constructed the list.

Yo Nic4,

I am not going to bash the old man but somehow he was misled to believe the MDA pilots were furloughed. ALPA has got a major problem with this lawsuit. If the old man was deceived by the merger commitee and ALPA legal, what happens to the award?

Fraud! Wow! Blows the Nic out of the water!

The company has already stated that MDA was in fact Mainline and that is why the MDA pilots were shown as active on the company list!

Interesting times we live in............

Hate

 

[HPDriver]

...but somehow he was misled to believe the MDA pilots were furloughed...

Misled?

I don't think so. The only way you could get hired on to MDA was via the APL. The only way you got on the APL was if you were furloughed.

It was pretty obvious back then when your MEC put it together and its still pretty obvious now.

You honestly think the MDA litigation is progressing in a positive manner? Its hanging on by a thread soaked in gas and lit on fire.

Its done.

 

[HPDriver]

However, at the time the merger "snapshot" was taken, Colello was furloughed. Or considered furloughed from Mainline to MidAtlantic. He was not flying the B757 at the time of the ALPA merger Policy Initiation Date (PID).

Anyone know who decided to use May 2005 as the status date?

Wait for it.

It was the East Merger Committee!!!!

 

[cleardirect]

Yo Nic4,

I am not going to bash the old man but somehow he was misled to believe the MDA pilots were furloughed. ALPA has got a major problem with this lawsuit. If the old man was deceived by the merger commitee and ALPA legal, what happens to the award?

Fraud! Wow! Blows the Nic out of the water!

The company has already stated that MDA was in fact Mainline and that is why the MDA pilots were shown as active on the company list!

Interesting times we live in............

Hate

Just who exactly misled Nicolau?

Now there is an interesting twist. Fraud.

Generally when someone works to defraud someone else. They tend to work to improve their situation not to get less then they think they deserve.

Let me understand. The merger committee worked to get the MDA guys less. But now want to declare fraud.

Where is the law suit against the MC. Where is the law suit against the merger attorney? You know the guys that actually worked on the merger. ALPA national is precluded from participating in an individual airlines merger.

Keep writing those checks though. Discovery is expensive.

 

[nic4us]

The company has already stated that MDA was in fact Mainline and that is why the MDA pilots were shown as active on the company list!

Interesting times we live in............

Hate

I thought the company did some sort of longevity revision to former MDA pilots, and did not count their time at MDA as longevity at USAirways, thereby cutting their pay. How and when did the company state MDA was mainline? I sure do not recall that.

 

[nic4us]

Stocks up big time this morning on rumor of the corporate tranaction and the seperation from the west. (keep your fingers crossed)

rumor is that corporate transaction involves selling 30-40% of the company ( mostly former east 330s 767/757 737s e190s and remaining LGA slots etc.) to American, with the proceeds from the transaction going to a reverse aquisition of United by LCC ( mostly former West 320s, 757s plus what is left of the former east 320s)

my fingers are crossed!

 

[Hawkhunter]

Good thing for you JS that it still went DOH. How much did Doug put up to "save" USairways? We all know you just want to get to PHX since you already are at the top of the list thanks to DOH.

 

[flybynite]

Hmm...rumors are such fun!

The one I heard was that the former east would be sold or merged with American and the former west would be sold or merged with Republic.

Oh my!!

 

[Hate2fly]

I thought the company did some sort of longevity revision to former MDA pilots, and did not count their time at MDA as longevity at USAirways, thereby cutting their pay. How and when did the company state MDA was mainline? I sure do not recall that.

Jerry Glass under oath!

Hate

 

[Richard]

rumor is that corporate transaction involves selling 30-40% of the company ( mostly former east 330s 767/757 737s e190s and remaining LGA slots etc.) to American, with the proceeds from the transaction going to a reverse aquisition of United by LCC ( mostly former West 320s, 757s plus what is left of the former east 320s)

my fingers are crossed!

Please do not discuss rumors/acquisitions in this thread--until announced they have no bearing on the labor issues being discussed here.

There is a separate thread for discussing this rumored transaction which can be found here: http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46985

Thank you.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Cards don't mean jack. Thats so yesterday.

Exactly.

 

[Megasnoop]

I am not going to bash the old man but somehow he was misled to believe the MDA pilots were furloughed. ALPA has got a major problem with this lawsuit. If the old man was deceived by the merger commitee and ALPA legal, what happens to the award?
Fraud! Wow! Blows the Nic out of the water!
The company has already stated that MDA was in fact Mainline and that is why the MDA pilots were shown as active on the company list!
Hate

Couple things, Hate. Regardless how MDA turns out in court, Nic and his attorney are getting a diifferent look at the real status of MDA pilots in May 2005 and he still has jurisdiction. As he said, no 2 seniority integrations are the same and they all turn on the facts. "Facts" can change. Arbitration testimony shows Nic was confused by the 3 lists. I don't think it rises to fraud level, but obviously to DFR level.

Misled? I don't think so. The only way you could get hired on to MDA was via the APL. The only way you got on the APL was if you were furloughed. It was pretty obvious back then when your MEC put it together and its still pretty obvious now.

To get hired, not exactly, since there were other non-AAA pilots flying MDA. ALPA treated all U pilots at MDA as AAA active, belonging to PHL or CLT LECs. Company did the same. Glass admitted under oath they were active U employees. Im not sure why everything revolves around "our" MEC. ALPA Natl was the CBA. ALPA Natl made all the decisions, our FPLers were rubber stamps. ALPA set up the MDA/CEL status as active PHL/CLT members. They wanted the dues, that's why they listed them as active AAA. Now its come back to haunt them in court. Don't take the next as 100% correct because I wasnt at MDA or any of the others, but there were some representation turf wars going on, I think involving IBT. Everyone wanted the dues money.

You honestly think the MDA litigation is progressing in a positive manner? Its hanging on by a thread soaked in gas and lit on fire. Its done.

Its all being held close to the vest, so how do you have info contrary.

rumor is that corporate transaction involves........REMOVED by the SNOOP to comply with moderator!

I won't discuss the rumor. One thing with a split, all this bull will end and we can find new fake names to argue with. If we're in APA and your back in ALPA, it will be almost immediately and without a vote. You can argue with UAL and we'll argue with AMR or vice-versa. For you, you'd still have the new modified ALPA merger policy to deal with. Don't expect another NIC. For us, it's McCaskill and Allhegany-Mohawk. There will never be another NIC or AMR/TWA debacle in this industry.

And for the PM about "outing" one of you, when you use the same moniker on 3 different chats, where you use your real name, it's easy to figure out whose who. I post on 4 others, 2 require my real name, but I don't use monikers.

 

[Irideover]

Misled?

I don't think so. The only way you could get hired on to MDA was via the APL.

Wrong. From the restructuring agreement July 2002:

Job Opportunities—
Mid-Atlantic Airways • All MDA positions will be filled first by US Airways pilots,
followed next by pilots from the Participating Wholly-Owned Carriers on the Participating Wholly-Owned Carrier Pilot List as
defined in Attachment B-1 below, followed by new-hire pilots.
A US Airways pilot on the Affected Pilot List who has stated
MDA as a preference may displace into MDA if he is senior to
the most junior MDA pilot.



Additional Bidding
Provisions Notwithstanding any other provisions of the ALPA Restructuring
Agreement, the following additional provisions apply to pilots on
the US Airways pilot seniority list:

• Provision will be made to permit a US Airways pilot who would
otherwise not have been furloughed to bid to an MDA vacancy
in order to eliminate the furlough of a junior pilot who is not
then on furlough. (Subject to resolution of Mainline training
holds/training early/TDY/moving expense issues applicable to
these pilots).

Just pointing out it was possible to go to MDA w/out being furloughed.

 

[cleardirect]

Its all being held close to the vest, so how do you have info contrary.

(MDA Law Suit)

All of the filings are a matter of public record just like the Addington case. The dismissal of all but the last charge was a blood bath.

The discovery is progressing painfully slow. The plaintiffs are running close on their dead line of Sept 30. No it is not looking good at all.

 

[Barrister]

and the west's ridiculous theory that they somehow saved the East's furloughed pilots and that is what brought about the recall.

shows how naive they are to the business.

this business goes in cycle's and so do the furloughs that go with it. The last down cycle started with 9 11 and the massive furloughs that 90 % of all airlines endured. The cycle was over in 2005 and recalls were well underway.

plus as talked about before the EAST had much more attrition.. Over 100 pilots a year retiring prior to 60 rule change. So it was not the west that saved the east pilots and we had plenty of jobs.

The East attrition is the key here. NIC put us behind the west new hires so they get to capture OUR attrition.

that is the major element I have wrong with the list.

and no I don't want your west CAPT spot just my EAST slot.