US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[Schultz]

Ah, there it is - CEL.

Are you stating here that the CEL pilots - pilots who NEVER interviewed at AAA, were considered mainline pilots?!?!?

And how were these express pilots flying with mainline pilots who were "never" furloughed (even though USAPA considers them to have been furloughed).

These 105 CEL pilots never had recall rights to mainline and could never exercise any seniority rights of a mainline pilot because they were NEVER mainline.

You're argument here falls apart because it violates the seniority clause in your CBA.

Your whole argument failed before and its failing again.

Humm, They filled out USAiways mainline applications, took drug tests for USAirways mainline. even the FAA did background checks (PIRA) for USAirways mainline. Sounds like they were hired at USAirways mainline to me.

 

[nic4us]

Again what did HP bring to the table?
Are you comparing HP to DL

An offer you could not refuse!

Well I suppose US could have refused and waited to see if some other buyer would have walked into the store during their going out of business sale.

 

[luvthe9]

An offer you could not refuse!

Well I suppose US could have refused and waited to see if some other buyer would have walked into the store during their going out of business sale.

Or we could have waited for "project Zanzibar" take place!!!!!

 

[nic4us]

Humm, They filled out USAiways mainline applications, took drug tests for USAirways mainline. even the FAA did background checks (PIRA) for USAirways mainline. Sounds like they were hired at USAirways mainline to me.

Humm, sounds like they should have cleared the furlough list if the company was hiring off the street to mainline while mainline pilots were furloughed.

No other airline in the world that I am aware of would hire from the street to fill vacancies at that airline while at the same time they had furloughed employees to fill those positions.

So I see only two possibilities. Either USAirways was the worlds most dysfunctional airline (entirely possible) or the CEL pilots were not in fact hired to USAirways mainline.

This is all quite informative, but simply academic. The MDA pilots are in their rightful place on the Nic, their lawsuit against ALPA will not change the Nic, the CEL pilots are also placed on the Nic in their proper position, and nothing usapa, the east or MDA does is going to change that.

 

[nic4us]

The reason DOH is being applied is because it has stood in court as fair in numerous cases and is the preeminent system used by organized labor. It is quantifiable and objective.

So is last years W2.

DOH is not being applied, a solution based on the merits of this case using a form of relative seniority, is being applied.

The reason usapa seeks to use DOH has nothing to do with union practices or union ideals. If usapa were concerned with union practices, they would have followed the most fundemental tenant of organized labor, do not screw the members! usapa seeks DOH, because the east seeks DOH, a method that would greatly favor their position at the direct detriment of the West. DOH may have been found to be fair in numerous cases, but not this one. Anybody been found guilty of a DFR lately?

 

[ROACLT]

That's the nutshell. USAPA has really created a problem:

If they lose at the 9th (likely), they've enshrined Nicolau II into case law. If they win, they have to hope they are not bought/sold/fragmented/merged into a larger carrier, because the same stapler can be used against US Airways pilots.

A brilliant scheme. Shame that Bradford can't be found playing either poker or chess for money--lots of poor people could use the cash.

The major difference is that ALPA merger policy was an internal process governed by union constitution and by-laws. In a AMR/US Airways merger, the arbitration if necessary is required to comply with Federal Law(McCaskill-Bond). It becomes a legislatively required and governed process.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Well I can tell you right now. If the ALPA merger policy had been written like the east wants. DOH, then the AWA pilots would have raises holy hell, along with our F/A’s and tried everything in our power to ill this deal. Just lie DAL did.

Oh really? Because I recently had a former American Trans Air guy on the jump seat - he claimed the America West pilot group was ALL about Date of Hire for THAT merger.

Along with a premium bump and flush provision in order to take the widebody and Captain jobs for themselves (which sounds depressingly familiar).

 

[Reed Richards]

"The reason usapa seeks to use DOH has nothing to do with union practices or union ideals. If usapa were concerned with union practices, they would have followed the most fundemental tenant of organized labor, do not screw the members!"

You are putting the cart before the horse. In order to be so "supposedly" screwed, you have to BE a member first. Non members indeed require service, but only at the most basic contractual and representational level. They simply have no input, zero, into the direction a union takes.

Let me try and recall the chain-- "I will never join USAPA, nor will I pay." " I want to join, but they are denying me membership." "I joined, but they made me a member illegally, so I won't pay." "I joined, indeed, but I am only paying THIS amount," "Oops, I guess I will pay it all." and finally, after all that "Hey, let's show them and all join !" Camera pulls back to barn door, swinging open in the wind.

The fundamental principle of unionism is participation, front and center. Web Boards, videos, blogs, and emails alone don't count.

9th Circuit or SCOTUS agreeing, DOH will also stand. But I realize the odds are long on success in those venues, about as long as getting an appeal was a few weeks ago. An expedited appeal? You must be dreaming.

RR

 

[N924PS]

Trump Shuttle DL/NW brought a lot to the table there bargaining was weighted. *HP* LAS PHX SHARES

Not really.

The methodology used was actually quite similar to the Nicolau. Except the length of service was skewed at Airways because of stagnation and furloughs.

 

[fatherabraham]

EAST dec. bid out

 

[Schultz]

Humm, sounds like they should have cleared the furlough list if the company was hiring off the street to mainline while mainline pilots were furloughed.

No other airline in the world that I am aware of would hire from the street to fill vacancies at that airline while at the same time they had furloughed employees to fill those positions.

So I see only two possibilities. Either USAirways was the worlds most dysfunctional airline (entirely possible) or the CEL pilots were not in fact hired to USAirways mainline.

This is all quite informative, but simply academic. The MDA pilots are in their rightful place on the Nic, their lawsuit against ALPA will not change the Nic, the CEL pilots are also placed on the Nic in their proper position, and nothing usapa, the east or MDA does is going to change that.

Better yet, The company and ALPA should of told the furloughed pilots that MDA was not just another JFJ, but was actually a division of USAirways just like Metrojet. Thats what the MDA suit is all about. Stay tuned.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The company and ALPA should of told the furloughed pilots that MDA was not just another JFJ, but was actually a division of USAirways just like Metrojet. Thats what the MDA suit is all about. Stay tuned.

That's bad for the MDA suit since MDA was a separate wholly-owned corporate division of US Group (like mainline, PSA, and Piedmont wwere a different wholly-owned corporate divisions of Group), unlike MetroJet which was just a marketing name and not a wholly-woned corporate division...

Jim

 

[V1cut]

This has been wrung out on this site already...circa 2002.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=253


I suggest every west pilot read it (they won't) it would help illuminate some of the ALPA/company posturing way back then.

 

[HPDriver]

Humm, They filled out USAiways mainline applications, took drug tests for USAirways mainline. even the FAA did background checks (PIRA) for USAirways mainline. Sounds like they were hired at USAirways mainline to me.

Wow, that's fantastic!! A commuter guy fills out and app, pees in a cup, and becomes a mainline pilot.

Amazing!!!

Schultz, you realize how stupid that sounds?!?!

Did you know that what you wrote actually violates your own CBA with regard to length of service?

Didn't think so.

Man you guys are grasping at straws.

 

[HPDriver]

Better yet, The company and ALPA should of told the furloughed pilots that MDA was not just another JFJ, but was actually a division of USAirways just like Metrojet. Thats what the MDA suit is all about. Stay tuned.

Reason the company didn't tell you that was because MDA was a separate division.

The only reason those jets were put on AAA's certificate was because they showed up early and the FAA wanted them on a certificate. It had nothing to do with them being mainline at all.

And your east MC along with Hogg made it very clear that MDA was to be operated separately from mainline.

And the only think I'll "stay tuned" for is the dismissal of your frivolous lawsuit.

Your 5% rule is costing you guys lots of money.