US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[HPDriver]

I could of gone to MDA on day 1..
I would not work for peanuts and be subject to taking away our 125K year F/O jobs and replacing them with MDA...

so I could of not been furloughed but gone to MDA>

and then we have this:

All pilots were furloughed originally.........MDA was not up and running right away.

Hate

I wish you MDA guys would get your stories straight. So which is it?

Keep trying to cash the lottery card and I'll keep fighting it with every ounce of fiber I have.

Fighting!?!? More like donating money to a lawyer. But hey, its your money.

 

[Dorf]

Very simple question. Are any of the MDA pilots senior to Coello?

IIRC, part of the "Wrong list" that was handed NIC showed Collello as furloughed, but in FACT he was already back on the property flying the 757 for SEVEN MONTHS PRIOR to the arbitration even starting. How he can be fuloughed and flying the line at the same time is a pretty neat trick. Can anyone verify this? If they can, then the list NIC used was wrong.

Dorf

 

[Dorf]

and then we have this:



I wish you MDA guys would get your stories straight. So which is it?

I'm not an "MDA GUY" but, IIRC, the whole rub was that U furloughed, then formed MDA on the U certificate, then offered furloughees a job at MDA saying it was a J4J carrier. Some pilots, like a previous poster, chose not to go to a "J4J" position and stayed furloughed. If he/she would have known from the start that MDA was really US, he might have made a different choice. He would have continued to accrue longevity, etc. The reality was that MDA was really part of U (like Metrojet) and the company, with the colusion of ALPA and the U MEC, tried to hide it until they had to come clean.
By then, they had recalled out of seniority and created quite a mess. The Company(J Glass) even went to court and TESTIFIED that MDA was always Usairways. This was how they were able to sell the aircraft to Republic and not have to force Republic to take the pilots with the aircraft.

If I remember the posts(without going back to find them) The FAA didn't even recognize the name MidAtlantic, because even in their eyes it didn't exist. In fact they even made the company take all references to MDA out of the manuals(except that it was a division within Usairways).

Dorf

 

[nycbusdriver]

But hey, its your money.

Exactly! But you guys sure to obsess over it, don't you?

 

[HPDriver]

I'm not an "MDA GUY" but, IIRC, the whole rub was that U furloughed, then formed MDA on the U certificate,

Because the FAA wanted them on a certificate -period. It had nothing to do with MDA being a part of U.

The reality was that MDA was really part of U (like Metrojet) and the company, with the colusion of ALPA and the U MEC, tried to hide it until they had to come clean.

Do you actually read what you write?!!?!

Come clean? Hiding? Please.

 

[Megasnoop]

I wish you MDA guys would get your stories straight. So which is it?

Just for the record, HP, Hate2fly was not MDA.

Fighting!?!? More like donating money to a lawyer. But hey, its your money.

We're all donating to lawyers, so's its your money, too.

Also, not just MDA C/O Portale with an AAA union position, but Greenhall was on the AAA Negotiating Committee while flying MDA. Now how can that be? Nic didn't screw up. He had 3 lists, the East list, West list, and company list. He guessed wrong. Funny, but under oath in depo, Jerry Glass admitted U was carrying all the MDA pilots as active U pilots, not on furlough. Hey, we all know the original intent, J4Js/MDA/CEL, whatever you want to call them, were originally to be a separate entity, but the company could never get a certificate for them. So, Glass (for once) was right. Last, ALPA wanted the dues money. Calling MDA mainliners got them the dues. Otherwise, no dues. The ALPA beancounters not talking with the attorneys?

West dying from low yield?

East to UAL or AMR?

Or take the money and run, let West die?

Or trade the $35M January payment for a November pay raise?

Tying up loose ends, Grievances 8 & 10? Antonelli cleaning up what's owed USAPA for $125K? LOA 84 cleaned up? All coming to a head in November? Trading it all in for a November raise?

 

[N924PS]

IIRC, part of the "Wrong list" that was handed NIC showed Collello as furloughed, but in FACT he was already back on the property flying the 757 for SEVEN MONTHS PRIOR to the arbitration even starting. How he can be fuloughed and flying the line at the same time is a pretty neat trick. Can anyone verify this? If they can, then the list NIC used was wrong.

Dorf

That may in fact be true. At THAT time he was flying the B757.

However, at the time the merger "snapshot" was taken, Colello was furloughed. Or considered furloughed from Mainline to MidAtlantic. He was not flying the B757 at the time of the ALPA merger Policy Initiation Date (PID).

Once again, if the list submitted to Nicolau, was "wrong", how did the MEC/MC pass it to Nicolau without challenge from Colello and below on the list? That group has been vocal and active since their furlough. I don't recall any challenges until the Nicolau Award reared its ugly head.

Even if Nicolau reconsiders , it's unlikely he would reorder the list other than to slide the MDA pilots above "Save Dave". Will that be enough for East pilots to accept the award ?

 

[cactusboy53]

Why the negativity?

If there are damages. So far, none. Judge thru out counts 1 & 2.

I think it was actually September 27, 2005, but what’s 2 year error among friends?

Snooper! What up??

I'm not negative. I'm just curious if the person that posted the original post had bothered to read ANY of the transcripts available. His or her responses seem to lack any factually based arguments.

I did mention in my post that the damages portions of the DFR lawsuits were to take place in Spring (hence I agree, none SO FAR). Don't stand on your chair and declare victory yet (as well, I will not), BUT USAPA's legal achievements to date leave a great deal to be desired. It seems that all of my Eastern brethren & sisters are satisfied to let this run to the end NO MATTER THE PERSONAL COST TO EACH EAST PILOT & THEIR FAMILIES.

I hit the 7 key instead of the 5 by accident (by product of well past my 2 venti coffee limit for the morning). You are correct, the completion of the acquisition of the old US Air did take place on Sept. 27, 2005.

 

[nic4us]

IIRC, part of the "Wrong list" that was handed NIC showed Collello as furloughed, but in FACT he was already back on the property flying the 757 for SEVEN MONTHS PRIOR to the arbitration even starting. How he can be fuloughed and flying the line at the same time is a pretty neat trick. Can anyone verify this? If they can, then the list NIC used was wrong.

Dorf

Does not answere my question. Is there any MDA pilot senior to Coello? But I have to add, was Coello MDA?

Coello was furloughed at the time of the merger and got his job back because of the merger. The list was not wrong on this account, which was talked about in the award by your pilot nuetral. However, Nicolau reasoned that in fact it was indeed because of the merger that Coello was employed, which gave greater weight to the West arguement and he placed all furloughs junior to Odell. All furloughs being Coello and anyone junior to him whether they were employed at MDA or not.

Regardless, MDA will not spoil the Nic, the 9th will not spoil the Nic, the SCOTUS will not spoil the Nic.

 

[Megasnoop]

Snooper! What up??

Just another day or reserve, Dave. Nothing changes in PHL. Block a month, reserve a month. When CS calls, tell them it'll take 90 minutes to get there and they call someone else.

I'm not negative. I'm just curious if the person that posted the original post had bothered to read ANY of the transcripts available. His or her responses seem to lack any factually based arguments.

Transcripts dont make much difference anymore. Its all down to this sorting out legally, if we last that long. My bet, we don't. Inside info, you know. East to AMR/UAL? West dangling into oblivion? The company trying to get all their ducks in a row by November? I think we're all wasting band width arguing about all this.

I did mention in my post that the damages portions of the DFR lawsuits were to take place in Spring (hence I agree, none SO FAR). Don't stand on your chair and declare victory yet (as well, I will not), BUT USAPA's legal achievements to date leave a great deal to be desired. It seems that all of my Eastern brethren & sisters are satisfied to let this run to the end NO MATTER THE PERSONAL COST TO EACH EAST PILOT & THEIR FAMILIES.

Damages trial wont make any difference anyway. No damages now, no chance USAPA will provoke Judge Wampler. Parker's going to get the last laugh. Only victory is going to him anyway. We're not doing too bad on legal achievements. Announcemnt coming Friday. Lots still to go. Really neat stuff coming in early October. We got that $35 M for the LTDers. All the money thrown out? Don't think for a minute we're losing any money for no contract. There's no offer on the table. There never was.

I hit the 7 key instead of the 5 by accident (by product of well past my 2 venti coffee limit for the morning). You are correct, the completion of the acquisition of the old US Air did take place on Sept. 27, 2005.

I suggest is you shift beverages, or at least shift delivery system. BTW, do you know Brad Pitt? Is he a neighbor?

 

[nic4us]

Yo Nic4us,

USAPA has been great! You will notice all the LOA's close to 100 all signed, sealed and delivered by ALPA. Each and everyone one of those LOA's were concessionary...................... In your mind USAPA was about the Nic.......you have know idea what USAPA was about. 40 percent paycuts/loss of a 2 million dollar retirement just for starters. Your boy the judge got your DFR into his court room under his conditions.......now we are in a different court and we get to see if your boy got it right or wrong!

It has been wonderful having USAPA represent us.....not one LOA since inception!

Keep your eye on the prize!

Yes, I understand, had ALPA not made those conessions we would not be having this conversation as the east would have been unemployed without a pension or a company to grieve or sue.

In my mind usapas about...now there is a laugh...in my mind usapa is about all the things you list. Paycuts, pension loss, Nic award, all the things that are just symptoms of just how deep the pile was you were standing in. What makes you think you can make it all better at the West's expense. In reality you are correct, I have no idea what usapa was about, nor do I care to learn. Conversely, usapa has no idea what I am about, that is why they are guilty of a DFR case. They sought to benefit themselves at others expense because it is just not fair what has happened to them.

His honor is not my boy. The conditions would be those of federal law. The court we have moved to uses those same laws. Chances are the judge knows the law and he got it right.

One last thing. No LOAs maybe, but did usapa not give back the age 58 rule and get nothing in return for its CONCESSION?

 

[nic4us]

the bottom line is NIC screwed up and put guys who were never furloughed and guys that decided to do somthing else until the last recall below guys that were hired at this place in 2007..

You can't look me in the face and say that is right.. because you know it's messed up and so does everyone else.

Keep trying to cash the lottery card and I'll keep fighting it with every ounce of fiber I have.

Only commenting since you decided to use the lottery analogy.

You are incorrect, and I am not talking about the 2007 typo. Nic put junior pilots hired at AWA ahead of furloughed pilots from AAA, and neither was hired at this place LCC.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Just another day or reserve, Dave. Nothing changes in PHL. Block a month, reserve a month. When CS calls, tell them it'll take 90 minutes to get there and they call someone else.



Transcripts dont make much difference anymore. Its all down to this sorting out legally, if we last that long. My bet, we don't. Inside info, you know. East to AMR/UAL? West dangling into oblivion? The company trying to get all their ducks in a row by November? I think we're all wasting band width arguing about all this.



Damages trial wont make any difference anyway. No damages now, no chance USAPA will provoke Judge Wampler. Parker's going to get the last laugh. Only victory is going to him anyway. We're not doing too bad on legal achievements. Announcemnt coming Friday. Lots still to go. Really neat stuff coming in early October. We got that $35 M for the LTDers. All the money thrown out? Don't think for a minute we're losing any money for no contract. There's no offer on the table. There never was.



I suggest is you shift beverages, or at least shift delivery system. BTW, do you know Brad Pitt? Is he a neighbor?

You guys are predictable. The more you fluff your feathers the closer you are to your latest setback or blank shot dud. Thats what a few years of history shows. You did indeed get the cards though, sure enough, you did.

 

[Phoenix]

You guys are predictable. The more you fluff your feathers the closer you are to your latest setback or blank shot dud. Thats what a few years of history shows. You did indeed get the cards though, sure enough, you did.

Cards don't mean jack. Thats so yesterday.

 

[cactusboy53]

"I suggest is you shift beverages, or at least shift delivery system. BTW, do you know Brad Pitt? Is he a neighbor?"

I don't know Brad personally. I lost all respect for him after he dropped Jen for Angelina.....It's kinda like dropping Mary Ann for Ginger IMHO (oops....showed my age!).