US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[boeingplt]

Why is usapa asking for less money at the table than the snapbacks?

Actually the weighted average payrates in the current proposal are notably higher than LOA 84. Doubt Parker even bothered to look at that. The industry standard pay analysis produced this effect.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Why is usapa asking for less money at the table than the snapbacks?

Actually the weighted average payrates in the current proposal are notably higher than LOA 84. Doubt Parker even bothered to look at that. The industry standard pay analysis produced this effect.

Are you saying that pay is not the only thing of value in a contract? Ten or fifteen more days of vacation/ or flying less than 90 hr blocks has considerable value, especially to the people recalled to fill the extra slots.

 

[westcoastflyer]

Why is usapa asking for less money at the table than the snapbacks?

Actually the weighted average payrates in the current proposal are notably higher than LOA 84. Doubt Parker even bothered to look at that. The industry standard pay analysis produced this effect.

Are you saying that pay is not the only thing of value in a contract? Ten or fifteen more days of vacation/ or flying less than 90 hr blocks has considerable value, especially to the people recalled to fill the extra slots.

That is an important point which most East pilots don't seem to understand. A new contract with the previously agreed-to work rule and vacation changes would result in the recall of almost all of the pilots currently on furlough, in very short order. More upgrades and upward movement would also be the result. This would be a tremendous boost for ALL US Airways pilots. Dragging out these contract negotiations is costing all of the pilots and their families a lot of money, quality- of- life, and even the chance to be re-employed here.

 

[flyer63]

That is an important point which most East pilots don't seem to understand. A new contract with the previously agreed-to work rule and vacation changes would result in the recall of almost all of the pilots currently on furlough, in very short order. More upgrades and upward movement would also be the result. This would be a tremendous boost for ALL US Airways pilots. Dragging out these contract negotiations is costing all of the pilots and their families a lot of money, quality- of- life, and even the chance to be re-employed here.

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why does every west pilot try to convince us out East at what a great deal we are missing out and that we should sign on the dotted line ..... I have 25 years in this business 20 here at AAA. I think I know what works for me and doesn't. Anything with NIC screws me unless they are going to pay me captain pay. Highly doubt that. So we will see the process through to the end and then make decisions on how to negotiate based on the final outcome.

As far as striking . I expect that to be someplace down the road. But will participate in any legal job action. Most likely CHAOS. I can't see any union going to a full blown strike after EAL....

 

[V1cut]

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why does every west pilot try to convince us out East at what a great deal we are missing out and that we should sign on the dotted line ..... I have 25 years in this business 20 here at AAA. I think I know what works for me and doesn't. Anything with NIC screws me unless they are going to pay me captain pay. Highly doubt that. So we will see the process through to the end and then make decisions on how to negotiate based on the final outcome.

As far as striking . I expect that to be someplace down the road. But will participate in any legal job action. Most likely CHAOS. I can't see any union going to a full blown strike after EAL....

Because, as has been said 100 times on here, they are desperate to "secure" the NIC in a contract....especially since most airlines are shrinking in this economy, and what the west brought to the merger is suffering tremendously. ( I guess St. Nic missed that one, eh?) They want the "super-seniority" that the NIC would afford them in this down economy. (READ: your job...)
Well, it ain't gonna happen. They are vulnerable as long as Parker is dragging his feet on spending the $100M+ that just parity would cost, much less "gains" in this economy....it's just that simple.

 

[westcoastflyer]

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why does every west pilot try to convince us out East at what a great deal we are missing out and that we should sign on the dotted line ..... I have 25 years in this business 20 here at AAA. I think I know what works for me and doesn't. Anything with NIC screws me unless they are going to pay me captain pay. Highly doubt that. So we will see the process through to the end and then make decisions on how to negotiate based on the final outcome.

As far as striking . I expect that to be someplace down the road. But will participate in any legal job action. Most likely CHAOS. I can't see any union going to a full blown strike after EAL....

This is really about selfishness, the ultimate "it's all about me attitude." Purposely delaying the achievement of a vastly improved contract is not in the best interests of the MAJORITY of the pilots, especially the East guys who are forfeiting a much better life (pay, days off, vacation, duty rigs,etc) for themselves and their families. YOU expect all of the US Airways pilots to continue working needlessly under the current awful contract, because YOU don't think the binding arbitration award is fair to YOU. YOU don't think you'll be able to upgrade as soon as YOU thought YOU should, so everybody should suffer indefinitely. The Nicolau award is the seniority list (by court order). Further delaying a much better contract for ALL pilots and unfairly delaying the recall of most, if not all, of the furloughed pilots is senseless and SELFISH.

 

[flypg]

This is really about selfishness, the ultimate "it's all about me attitude." Purposely delaying the achievement of a vastly improved contract is not in the best interests of the MAJORITY of the pilots, especially the East guys who are forfeiting a much better life (pay, days off, vacation, duty rigs,etc) for themselves and their families. YOU expect all of the US Airways pilots to continue working needlessly under the current awful contract, because YOU don't think the binding arbitration award is fair to YOU. YOU don't think you'll be able to upgrade as soon as YOU thought YOU should, so everybody should suffer indefinitely. The Nicolau award is the seniority list (by court order). Further delaying a much better contract for ALL pilots and unfairly delaying the recall of most, if not all, of the furloughed pilots is senseless and SELFISH.

Ha...that's a good one ! And you telling us what is good for us is not selfish ?....Hummm OK. Like you do not gain mountains with the abomination NIC. This is so transparent. If and when you can put yourself in the majority of the US airways pilots shoes do not bother with the rethoric.

 

[Piedmont1984]

This is really about selfishness, the ultimate "it's all about me attitude." Purposely delaying the achievement of a vastly improved contract is not in the best interests of the MAJORITY of the pilots, especially the East guys who are forfeiting a much better life (pay, days off, vacation, duty rigs,etc) for themselves and their families. YOU expect all of the US Airways pilots to continue working needlessly under the current awful contract, because YOU don't think the binding arbitration award is fair to YOU. YOU don't think you'll be able to upgrade as soon as YOU thought YOU should, so everybody should suffer indefinitely. The Nicolau award is the seniority list (by court order). Further delaying a much better contract for ALL pilots and unfairly delaying the recall of most, if not all, of the furloughed pilots is senseless and SELFISH.

If a contract is voted down, then the majority of pilots - by definition - will have acted in what they believe is their best interests.

 

[Phoenix]

"Let my daddy vote" is a tired mantra.

Its an old rallying cry of folks who panicked at the thought of missing the opportunity to "get a deal any deal" no matter how many times the union has to re-negotiate downward in a death spiral until you meet mngmnts "offer".

Wow. We are really missing an opportunity here. Life could be so much better if we would just give up already. At least we could then be certain about how good it can be as we move forward.

I see ALPA is beating the drum to get a head start for the upcoming card rally.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Because, as has been said 100 times on here, they are desperate to "secure" the NIC in a contract....

No, but I appreciate you subsidizing the airline for the remaining few years you have left. Most in the West have tenures measured in a multiple of decades. I suppose we'll be getting a contract in two or three years, or with another merger. Time will tell. Enjoy LOA 93 in the meantime.

 

[hp_fa]

I have a request. Can someone give me the Readers Digest version of the differences between LOA 93 and LOA 84. I understand that LOA 93 came in because of BK #2, but what is the skivvy on 84?

 

[flyer63]

Hey West coast.
It's not all about me, in fact you have it wrong. I fly with senior all the time and they don't want this abomination called the NIC either. So you have it wrong,...

on top of that it's not the senority list until it's in place and we are living it. Right now it's just a piece of paper.

 

[V1cut]

No, but I appreciate you subsidizing the airline for the remaining few years you have left. Most in the West have tenures measured in a multiple of decades. I suppose we'll be getting a contract in two or three years, or with another merger. Time will tell. Enjoy LOA 93 in the meantime.

Is this really the best you can respond with? Seriously.

Do you actually believe out west for one moment that nobody out east knows how old they are?
I'd like to be the first to publicly thank you for making our point for us...the west will own whats left of the airline in a few short years...and in the meantime, YOU MAY NOT HAVE OUR JOBS OR ATTRITION.

Afterwards, you may do to yourselves as you please.

 

[nic4us]

Ha..... Like you do not gain mountains with the abomination NIC. This is so transparent. If and when you can put yourself in the majority of the US airways pilots shoes do not bother with the rethoric.

I do not gain anything, actually I lost relative seniority. I am in the shoes of a USAirways pilot, they are too tight, need new soles, and smell.

If a contract is voted down, then the majority of pilots - by definition - will have acted in what they believe is their best interests.

Seems resonable to me.

I see ALPA is beating the drum to get a head start for the upcoming card rally.

Where do you see that? Something happening on the east, cause the West is in no mood for ALPA just yet?

 

[westcoastflyer]

Hey West coast.
It's not all about me, in fact you have it wrong. I fly with senior all the time and they don't want this abomination called the NIC either. So you have it wrong,...

on top of that it's not the senority list until it's in place and we are living it. Right now it's just a piece of paper.

I fully understand the fact that you don't want the Nicolau award. But, it's a done deal. Even Mr. Cleary in the PHX USAPA meeting said, regarding negotiations with the company "the Nicolau award is our bargaining position." It's been ordered by the court (DFR) to be implemented unaltered in all negotiations. I guess you get some pleasure out of delaying the inevitable, but at what price to ALL of the pilots? That's where the selfishness comes in. Check out the latest AOL Update at DELETED BY MODERATOR and read the chart to see just how much every East pilot has lost, just in income alone. Plus, as I mentioned before, a new contract would probably necessitate the recall of many of the furloughed pilots, and result in quite a few upgrades as well.