US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/30-7/7 KEEP ON TOPIC-NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[ableoneable]

Talk about dancing on the deck of the Titanic. Gentlemen, you need to pay attention to the financial health of your airline. You are bouncing on the cash covenant of the exit financing package. If you break the covenant, then the whole loan can be called. Your company can't hedge fuel because they have no cash to use as collateral. They went to the convertible market and that money is all used up. They are still having trouble financing brand new A-330 aircraft.

There is not much left. The next step is asset sales. The problem is any asset that is worth buying will further weaken the company. If you guys don't figure out some way to fix your problems and help fix your company, you will not be happy. Your seniority issues will seem quite secondary because when the poop hits the fan, it is going to be ugly.

If LCC can't raise cash soon, they will have to start selling stuff. That will not be good for LCC pilots.

Okay, back to fighting.

USAirways may indeed breach its loan covenants and go TU.

The pilot groups' ability to affect this outcome is pretty close to zero. - Unless we want to do a British Airways and offer to work a month for free. If it comes down to that I would hope that the pilot group would say thanks but no thanks. This profession has taken enough hits and any carrier that can't afford to pay its employees needs to go out of business.

As has been discussed many times before, this battle is doing nothing but positive things for the company's bottom line. Management has a built-in, permanent whipsaw that almost operates itself.
Sure, this comes with a few expenses related to irregular operations but overall it is the labor deal of the century.

I believe that the east pilots' belief; that a contract is not coming to a theater near you any time soon, is correct. The company is not desperate to pay us more. The Delta/Northwest merger has already shown what happens when you merge two pilot groups who do not attempt to kill each other; you have to throw a crap load of money at them. A single contract is probably not necessary, or even desirable, as a pretext to another merger.

Everybody keeps saying how this merger proves what a horrible CEO Doug Parker is. The people who financed this merger cashed out and cashed out big. Parker was able to raise cash in November/December and again last month. UAL appears ready to hit pawn shops in Chicago and they look like a better airline on paper than USAir.

We might not necessarily like Parker but don't think for a moment that the investment community shares our disdain. After all, these are the people who believe the sole reason GM, Chrysler and Boeing are in torpedo water is because of organized labor.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Also, as evidenced by USAPA's claim that approximately 93-94% of its total expenses are germaine to dues objectors, you folks are paying for this unless you take whatever action is necessary to get USAPA's germaine expenses to not include the various expenses that arose from the RICO litigation and the Addington litigation.

Or...all US Airways pilots will suffer until the current USAPA leadership is removed. That can only happen when East and West pilots become members in good standing, vote, and recall those individuals who are responsible for this mess and who intentionally impede any movement towards a joint contract that includes Nicolau. Nicolau is a fact of life. The only way pay, benefits, and QOL gets better for any of us is through a joint contract. The current USAPA leadership must be removed and if enough East and West pilots work together on this, we could have a joint contract a lot sooner than we think.

Great post, HP.

 

[traderjake]

50% +1 of voting union members can authorize a strike for the entire group. If you don't think this pilot group would strike to secure an industry standard contract with a fair and equitable seniority integration you are wrong. This pilot group has been treated unfairly and abused and I can assure you that most are more than ready able and willing to strike for a fair contract including fair seniority provisions. underpants

You go on strike over seniority and my footprints will be the first ones on the back of your shirt, or in your case, your underpants.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I have an idea. What about a compromise? (For the umpteenth time.) In order to avoid an Alamo scenario - which it appears we are rapidly approaching - why doesn't AOL or AWAPPA or whoever propose some sort of middle ground? Pick one of your own choosing. How about USAPA's C&R's reversed, or attrition east goes to the east for a period of years?

Something, anything that may unblock this logjam. Because in case anyone has not noticed, the more the west presses for an "unconditional surrender", the more desparate the resistance will be from the east.

I personally don't see a favorable ending to this if we continue on our present course. Time to deviate.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A noble sentiment, but I can see a few potential problems.

1 - USAPA made sure that there was no entity with the legal right to represent just the West pilots. In theory, AOL or whoever could negotiate an agreement that was agreeable to both side's negotiating teams, USAPA could get the remedy ruling lifted, and then claim that the agreement had no legal leg to stand on and negotiate whatever they wanted with the company.

2 - Even if USAPA changed it's constitution and created totally independent entities to represent East and West, I'm not sure it would be legal now that the NMB has issued a single transportation system ruling.

3 - What could the West hope to gain from negotiating away what they've gotten through arbitration and affirmed through court ruling? A court ruling which they've spent a significant amount of money to secure. A promise from the East to abide by this agreement? They've been there and done that already and what did it get them besides a big legal bill and furloughs? No one could make the East vote for a contract containing the modified seniority agreement any more than the East could be forced to vote for a contract containing the Nic.

It seems to me that the only way out of this is for USAPA to actually negotiate a combined contract and put it out for a vote. If it passes, the worst will be over - I remain firmly convinced that there are enough pilots on the East side that would vote for a descent contract to ratify it and the hotheads would just have to live with it or leave.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

luvthe9,

I've heard it referenced before, what is the LTD settlement? Is it both east and west pilots on LTD?

Beancounter

Long Term Disability, the company wanted to screw the guys out on LTD, no surprise there.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It seems to me that the only way out of this is for USAPA to actually negotiate a combined contract and put it out for a vote. Jim

And that will only happen if there is a total change in USAPA leadership.

Join, pay dues, recall.

 

[HPDriver]

I have an idea. What about a compromise? (For the umpteenth time.)

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, no.

 

[Metroyet]

I have an idea. What about a compromise? (For the umpteenth time.)

Not to beat a dead horse for the umpteenth time but the brain trust at USAPA HQ, as cheered on by their charlatan lawyer, tossed the A bomb into the pilot group.The West is an innocent bystander to this fiasco. AOL has no more right to negotiate a settlement than I do. Nothing would prevent a disgruntled group of West Pilots from sueing AOL if they felt they were being disadvantaged. Negotiation, and therefore compromise, is impossible now. The Angry FO Club thought they could simply overpower the minority and do as they wished with impunity. Here we are. Nic. Unmodified. There is no other choice. If you guys would have kept ALPA, perhaps...you had joint ratification. Now you have an injunction and a zero percent chance of overturning it. The responsibility for that falls squarely on the Lap of the East Pilots.

 

[East Hole]

Nevermind courts, judges, arbitrators or unions, the real issue nothing will ever be right if the minority can overpower the majority. The only way a union will work ever is if the majority rules. Seems like a simple concept to me.

 

[East Hole]

This company will not survive Nic being used. Thats a fact.

 

[ableoneable]

This company will not survive Nic being used. Thats a fact.

Pure bluster, when implemented the Nicolau list will have zero impact on the company.

 

[East Hole]

Captains and F/As will never get any sleep on overnights, unless they learn how to use hotel sign in sheets. No more FO Gopher!!!

 

[Metroyet]

Nevermind courts, judges, arbitrators or unions, the real issue nothing will ever be right if the minority can overpower the majority. The only way a union will work ever is if the majority rules. Seems like a simple concept to me.

So in your world, blacks should be sitting in the back of the bus if the majority wants it that way? No difference. In the United States, discrimination is harmful and illegal. I believe a recent legal proceeding upheld that notion.

 

[nic4us]

I have an idea. What about a compromise? (For the umpteenth time.) In order to avoid an Alamo scenario - which it appears we are rapidly approaching - why doesn't AOL or AWAPPA or whoever propose some sort of middle ground? Pick one of your own choosing. How about USAPA's C&R's reversed, or attrition east goes to the east for a period of years?

Something, anything that may unblock this logjam. Because in case anyone has not noticed, the more the west presses for an "unconditional surrender", the more desparate the resistance will be from the east.

I personally don't see a favorable ending to this if we continue on our present course. Time to deviate.

Piedmont,

The only avenue to compromise lies within USAPA.

They need to negotiate toward a joint contract that does not seek to impose conditions or restrictions against the Nic, but one that enhances conditions for longevity.

Example, rather than try and mitigate the Nic by trying to bid vacation by DOH, they should seek a vacation accrual favoring longevity. Perhaps, year 1-5= 3 weeks, plus an extra day for every 2 years, plus a bonus week at year 20. This would be a reduction for the West and the majority of West pilots would fall between 3-4 weeks and the majority of east pilots would be at 5+ weeks.

This is the only way I see toward any compromise and perhaps a way to save face on both sides.