US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/30-7/7 KEEP ON TOPIC-NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[Metroyet]

Countless times. Where would you like to begin? Perhaps with "You won't even get 200 cards!!!"...???

Wow!!!

One guy (allegedly) posts that comment on the ALPA board over two years ago...Fine. to be fair you can have that one.

USAPA 1.
West. Everything else.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Without quoting his whole post, it seems that someone has finally told Capt Underpants that his previous plan to use Nic is section 22 and negate it with the rest of the contract was DOA. So no we have the latest "plan 9 from outer space". Any guesses on how long before he learns that it too is filled with fallacies and thus DOA?

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Wow!!!

One guy (allegedly) posts that comment on the ALPA board over two years ago...Fine. to be fair you can have that one.

USAPA 1.
West. Everything else.

Ummm.."(allegedly)"?..and..it was on this board, not Alpa's. Just kindly do some homework on the history of these very threads within the archives here, wherein that and literally countless other west "certainties" have been posted...then get back to us all. I, very honestly, wouldn't even want to attempt to add up all the west postings that have proved not only entirely wrong, but utterly ridiculous in the process..this latest of yours being not even worth adding to that huge pile.

 

[cleardirect]

WOW!

I am still trying to get my head around this strike thing.

The wisdom on the east is now that a strike is the way to get out of binding arbitration.

First step. Convince the NMB that in today’s economy and the financial situation US Airways is in. With no friends on the hill. That the NMB will ever release you for a 30 day cooling off period then a strike. Major hurdle to overcome. But for fantasy sake let’s assume that happens. Do you have a time line? Are we talking two years, three years, four years before you get to this strike?

Once again you are placing way to much weight on Rakestraw. The company would then have to agree to reorder the list just because usapa wanted to punish the west pilots. Taking in to account that the federal injunction would still be in effect. Assuming that the company would still be here to come back to.

I have to give you credit for one thing. Your ability to ignore reality and large sections of the law are stunning. If you came up with this theory on your own congratulations, it is out here. If you heard it somewhere and believe it, seriously rethink who you talk to. If Seham is telling you this then it confirms everything that I believe about him.

 

[Elevation]

Damages portion of the case is requested to be delayed until Oct. by the plaintiffs.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

PS: As I personally can't remember ever signing any agreement regarding ANY of this Alpa-manufactured nightmare...well; thanks for also answering my earlier inquiry = "So..curiosity has me here; What would constitute a "good" logical fallacy?

Did you ever vote for your local officers and officers who make up your MEC?

Every vote on your bylaws?

Sign up and pay dues to ALPA?

If so then you gave your reps power of attorney to act upon your behalf.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Without quoting his whole post, it seems that someone has finally told Capt Underpants that his previous plan to use Nic is section 22 and negate it with the rest of the contract was DOA. So no we have the latest "plan 9 from outer space". Any guesses on how long before he learns that it too is filled with fallacies and thus DOA?

Jim

Jim,

A couple of serious questions just seeking your opinion.

Do you really believe that USAPA could not offset the perceived Nic windfalls by negotiating terms that favor pilots with greater longevity in the contract? If so then what is the economic advantage of Nic seniority in sec. 22 if Nic windfalls were completely offset throughout the rest of the contract and the contract then ratified by the pilots?

It is true that the contract would expire upon NMB release to self help. Do you believe that USAPA would still be bound by a "contractual" obligation to use ALPA merger policy and Nic as Wake stated in his jury instructions even though all other contractual obligations have expired? Do you believe that only the Nic seniority rights from the TA survive even though all other seniority rights and contract terms and conditions have ceased to exist with the expiration of the contract? What would the company contractual obligations be regarding Nic since there would be no contract and with the self help right to impose whatever terms and working conditions the company wanted?

underpants

 

[Snowskier]

I have been lurking on this board as a guest for the better part of 6 months and have decided to post some of my thoughts.

Though no fan of Chip, I found his letter to have some good points. We have, time and time again, been promised and assured that we'd have a contract and Nicolau would be nothing more than a bad memory. We've given up a great deal of pay and continued to work under LOA 93 hoping that this "investment" would pay off for us in the long run. It seems though, that we've moved ever further away from the promises USAPA has made with no hope of improvement any time soon. I don't believe we'll see any of the promised pay snapbacks that USAPA thinks we're going to get. I watched those videos on youTube and now see our pilots sitting there with nothing more that poker faces knowing they're holding unsuited low cards. It's all been nothing but bluster and bluff.

So where does this leave us? Further away than from where we started and with NOTHING to show for our dues money.

And now I read of strike talks after each and every one of USAPA's strategies have been systematically disassemble by the west's attorneys. This talk of now striking the company proves how desperate things have gotten over here and how correct Chip may be in what he wrote.

I hate to admit it, but its over for me. I won't even call it a good fight because it wasn't. I see it now as nothing more that a transfer of our dues to Seham and his firm and nothing more. And I have also been told that our money situation is becoming critical as well.

This madness needs to stop and it has for me. I will not strike. I will not wear my badge-backer, and I will terminate my membership with USAPA.

They have done nothing for us and I don't see them doing anything more than harming the entire group for the benefit of a small group. When the next trial comes in Sept(?) for damages, I see nothing but more dues money going into Seham's pockets and to the west.

CLT

Flame away as this will be my only post. I don't have the think skin Chip has.

 

[EastUS]

Sign up and pay dues to ALPA?

If so then you gave your reps power of attorney to act upon your behalf.

1) There was no choice, in that alpa dues were required as a condition of employment. My feelings towards alpa make those the west holds against USAPA seem very mild indeed.

2) Ah yes..those held hostage were actually responsible for the actions of their captors. Interesting "logic" Ask any west pilot how personally responsible they feel towards USAPA's actions. By your "logic"..everything USAPA's doing is their personal responsibility as well. Coupling your "logic" with that of the west...I guess they should all just "man up" and go along with things?

 

[luvthe9]

So where does this leave us? Further away than from where we started and with NOTHING to show for our dues money.

And now I read of strike talks after each and every one of USAPA's strategies have been systematically disassemble by the west's attorneys. This talk of now striking the company proves how desperate things have gotten over here and how correct Chip may be in what he wrote.

I

I think the guys on LTD would differ with you as USAPA won the largest settlemet for them 35 million. I don't know who's talking strike, nobody on the east would go on strike maybe alot of CHAOS especially with the scab history of the west. they have already said they would take a jobs in a second. Is this you Chip with a new name?

 

[Richard]

Doesn't matter who it is--stay on topic and no personal comments.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

A couple of serious questions just seeking your opinion.

Assuming the judge's draft remedy becomes the final version, the answer to your first question lies there.

I assume someone who's opinion you'd take seriously will eventually explain what's wrong with your new theory. I'm also sure that you wouldn't take my word for anything. A hint, thouth - the answer to your second question also lies in the draft remedy.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

They have done nothing for us and I don't see them doing anything more than harming the entire group for the benefit of a small group.

Said "small group", one must assume, constitutes all of our fellow pilots who's careers would effectively be over under nic? Well...there are "small groups"..and yet even smaller groups = "It's ALL about MEEE!!!!"

 

[EastUS]

I can think of at least 1600-1800 USAirways pilots that would be more than happy to cross the picket line ..

Agreed. Umm..would those be the very same ones who are striving to sell a fantasy of "moving forward" towards "an industry leading contract"?

 

[EastUS]

Damages portion of the case is requested to be delayed until Oct. by the plaintiffs.

I'm now a bit confused. isn't it the west's stated desire to have all of this be "over" ASAP?...or...is it now perfectly OK to delay...just so long as it suits west purposes? :blink: