US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/30-7/7 KEEP ON TOPIC-NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[nic4us]

Courts have ruled that both the company and union may seek to change seniority as a result of a strike. Companies may allow strikebreakers (scabs) to retain positions attained while working during the strike. Unions may punish strikebreakers by changing their seniority as a condition of ending the strike. Punishing strikebreakers by stripping seniority is considered by courts to be a legitimate union objective and not a DFR.

We can hope the major issues can be settled prior to the destructive self help stage of the RLA. The company is not in a strong financial condition and will need the cooperation of the union and all pilots to survive in this competitive industry.

underpants

Scarry stuff Underpants,

Are you implying that USAPA can use as a strategy, the calling for a strike as a method of re-arranging seniority?

The last thing USAPA needs is "self-help". USAPA needs some outside intervention, and they need it fast.

By the way, the courts have also made rulings on a unions duty of fair representation, union election fraud and misappropriation of union funds.

 

[Metroyet]

. Your efforts on this chat to frame the debate with endless denigration and attacks on USAPA, trying to turn accusations into facts arent working. One thing we do have is the money, your money.

Are these Accusations?

You guys have Lost the fight at every turn. Fact.

Guilty of DFR. Fact
Liable. Fact
Damages. Fact.
No plan to move Fwd. like a real union. Fact.
47% non-participation after 16 months. Fact.
Judge Wake put a straight jacket on USAPAs fraudulent plan. Fact.
Cactus 18 debacle. Dismissed with Prejudice. Fact
Election re-do for failing to extend rights to a west pilot. Fact

Can a union HAVE a worse track record in such a short period of time? I guess USAPA proved that as well. Fact.

You DON'T have my money and you won't because I don't work for US Air. Honestly, do you feel like a big man by forcing the west pilots to pay for USAPAs plan to destroy their careers? Do you fake union cheerleaders have ANY moral compass? Your glee at collecting a few bucks at gunpoint is no different than Russia billing the family of an executed prisoner for the bullet. You KNOW USAPA has no intention of representing the West. You KNOW USAPA provides the West absolutely NOTHING for their dues dollar but you hide like cowards behind the RLA and feel tough because you can twist and pervert the Law into unintended places to extort money from your innocent victims...and brag about it. Such Integrity. Such Moral Authority. How Noble. How Honorable. USAPA is operated by talentless, maniacal, angry, vindictive, scumbags. Nobody is going to give your fake union the satisfaction of taking their job over a few dollars and when the suzie arb. comes down this week, You'll probably see a lot more west guys joining.

West participation is something you DON'T want. Your fake union has no plan for that either. I suspect the law of unintended consequences might be paying a visit at some point in the not too distant future. .

 

[Captain Underpants]

Are you implying that USAPA can use as a strategy, the calling for a strike as a method of re-arranging seniority?

Absolutely! When self help is reached all the contracts and contractual obligations would expire and would no longer be enforceable including East, West and the TA. All seniority obligations cease until a new contract agreement containing new seniority provisions is reached and ratified.

50% +1 of voting union members can authorize a strike for the entire group. If you don't think this pilot group would strike to secure an industry standard contract with a fair and equitable seniority integration you are wrong. This pilot group has been treated unfairly and abused and I can assure you that most are more than ready able and willing to strike for a fair contract including fair seniority provisions.

Any contract proposal containing Nicolau will be overwhelmingly rejected. With self help contract negotiations start with a blank piece of paper as there would no longer be an existing contract. If the company or a court tried to force Nicolau then the strike would continue putting the company at risk of failure. There are and will be severe consequences to the West actions of trying to force an unfair seniority integration.

Labor law in this country gives union members that find the terms and conditions of their labor agreement unacceptable the right to strike to change the agreement. That is how the law was written in order to protect workers from being forced to work under unfair labor agreements. The law also places extreme limits on courts to keep them from interfering in the process.

The objective of the system backed by the law is to achieve a fair labor contract for both labor and the company while minimizing or hopefully preventing disruption of the transportation system and not to force unacceptable seniority terms into a labor agreement.

underpants

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Are these Accusations?

You guys have Lost the fight at every turn. Fact.

Guilty of DFR. Fact
Liable. Fact
Damages. Fact.
No plan to move Fwd. like a real union. Fact.
47% non-participation after 16 months. Fact.
Judge Wake put a straight jacket on USAPAs fraudulent plan. Fact.
Cactus 18 debacle. Dismissed with Prejudice. Fact
Election re-do for failing to extend rights to a west pilot. Fact

Can a union HAVE a worse track record in such a short period of time? I guess USAPA proved that as well. Fact.

You DON'T have my money and you won't because I don't work for US Air. Honestly, do you feel like a big man by forcing the west pilots to pay for USAPAs plan to destroy their careers? Do you fake union cheerleaders have ANY moral compass? Your glee at collecting a few bucks at gunpoint is no different than Russia billing the family of an executed prisoner for the bullet. You KNOW USAPA has no intention of representing the West. You KNOW USAPA provides the West absolutely NOTHING for their dues dollar but you hide like cowards behind the RLA and feel tough because you can twist and pervert the Law into unintended places to extort money from your innocent victims...and brag about it. Such Integrity. Such Moral Authority. How Honorable. USAPA is governed by talentless, maniacal, angry, vindictive, scumbags. Nobody is going to give your fake union the satisfaction of taking their job over a few dollars and when the suzie arb. comes down this week, You'll probably see a lot more west guys joining.

West participation is something you DON'T want either as you have no plan for that. Another Fact.

Outstanding! If USAPA thinks they can just be a bunch of thugs and goons and threaten strike, let them. When they cause liquidation, they will feel so morally superior when they report to their shifts at Wal-Mart.

The Arrogance!

 

[cleardirect]

Absolutely! When self help is reached all the contracts and contractual obligations would expire and would no longer be enforceable including East, West and the TA. All seniority obligations cease until a new contract agreement containing new seniority provisions is reached and ratified.

50% +1 of voting union members can authorize a strike for the entire group. If you don't think this pilot group would strike to secure an industry standard contract with a fair and equitable seniority integration you are wrong. This pilot group has been treated unfairly and abused and I can assure you that most are more than ready able and willing to strike for a fair contract including fair seniority provisions.

Any contract proposal containing Nicolau will be overwhelmingly rejected. With self help contract negotiations start with a blank piece of paper as there would no longer be an existing contract. If the company or a court tried to force Nicolau then the strike would continue putting the company at risk of failure. There are and will be severe consequences to the West actions of trying to force an unfair seniority integration.

Labor law in this country gives union members that find the terms and conditions of their labor agreement unacceptable the right to strike to change the agreement. That is how the law was written in order to protect workers from being forced to work under unfair labor agreements. The law also places extreme limits on courts to keep them from interfering in the process.

The objective of the system backed by the law is to achieve a fair labor contract for both labor and the company while minimizing or hopefully preventing disruption of the transportation system and not to force unacceptable seniority terms into a labor agreement.

underpants

:huh: WOW! But no negative consequences for the east pilots in your little scenario. WOW!

 

[luvthe9]

I think you guys are all sitting side by side in a closet somewhere out west. YAWN!!!

 

[Beancounter]

Absolutely! When self help is reached all the contracts and contractual obligations would expire and would no longer be enforceable including East, West and the TA. All seniority obligations cease until a new contract agreement containing new seniority provisions is reached and ratified.

50% +1 of voting union members can authorize a strike for the entire group. If you don't think this pilot group would strike to secure an industry standard contract with a fair and equitable seniority integration you are wrong. This pilot group has been treated unfairly and abused and I can assure you that most are more than ready able and willing to strike for a fair contract including fair seniority provisions.

Any contract proposal containing Nicolau will be overwhelmingly rejected. With self help contract negotiations start with a blank piece of paper as there would no longer be an existing contract. If the company or a court tried to force Nicolau then the strike would continue putting the company at risk of failure. There are and will be severe consequences to the West actions of trying to force an unfair seniority integration.

Labor law in this country gives union members that find the terms and conditions of their labor agreement unacceptable the right to strike to change the agreement. That is how the law was written in order to protect workers from being forced to work under unfair labor agreements. The law also places extreme limits on courts to keep them from interfering in the process.

The objective of the system backed by the law is to achieve a fair labor contract for both labor and the company while minimizing or hopefully preventing disruption of the transportation system and not to force unacceptable seniority terms into a labor agreement.

underpants

Are the same people that told you they could change the Nic decision by changing unions the same people that are telling you they can do it now by leading us into a strike? I'm very curious. I don't see that as being true and it could have a bad outcome for all. Just take a step back and think about what you're doing. Seriously if that doesn't work what is next?

 

[EastUS]

You man up, ... As for tough guy perspective...

Yes. I can now see clearly where it'd take a "real man" to roll over on all his principles and beliefs in favor of an arbitrator's whim. Thanks for the "tough guy perspective" from the front lines of the 000th Armored Cubicle Regiment

 

[HP2USFA]

You know I understand everyone's right to live their lives to their highest, but at what point does that pursuit end? Hopefully well before you threaten MY chance to live MY life to it's highest by attempting to take the company I work for down in a ball of flames just to prove a point.

My kingdom for an immediate Siamese-twin separation.

 

[EastUS]

Simple, you sign an agreement for binding arbitration, and you live with the results.

PS: As I personally can't remember ever signing any agreement regarding ANY of this Alpa-manufactured nightmare...well; thanks for also answering my earlier inquiry = "So..curiosity has me here; What would constitute a "good" logical fallacy?

 

[EastUS]

Have we been wrong yet?

Countless times. Where would you like to begin? Perhaps with "You won't even get 200 cards!!!"...???

 

[Metroyet]

Any contract proposal containing Nicolau will be overwhelmingly rejected. With self help contract negotiations start with a blank piece of paper as there would no longer be an existing contract. If the company or a court tried to force Nicolau then the strike would continue putting the company at risk of failure. There are and will be severe consequences to the West actions of trying to force an unfair seniority integration.

underpants

Sorry to burst the bubble. USAPA will NEVER be released for self help under this fantasy of yours. BTW, the court isn't "trying" to force nicolau, that already happend. The Court IS forcing Nicolau. Did you see the injunction? That isn't a suggestion. It's a Fact.

 

[EastUS]

You guys have Lost the fight at every turn. Fact.

Do you fake union cheerleaders have ANY moral compass?

Your glee at collecting a few bucks at gunpoint is no different than Russia billing the family of an executed prisoner for the bullet.

West participation is something you DON'T want either as you have no plan for that. Another Fact.

1) Well..if it's all "over", then..why keep up the rhetoric?

2) I like to think so..but it's not based on west-worship, self-worship, nor any arbitrator's whims.

3) It's actually the chinese government that does that, not the russians, but no matter.

4) Guess again.

 

[EastUS]

My kingdom for an immediate Siamese-twin separation.

Agreed.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Underpants, I guess you forgot that when you go out on strike the company is free to impose new terms on you, the President can stop the strike create a PEB and have Congress impose those terms on you.

Guess you forgot about those parts of the RLA, huh?