US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[luvthe9]

You could make the same points and more for LAX, SFO and SAN. All thriving PSA bases and ops. Airways canned each and every one of them. It can happen

 

[cleardirect]

A maximum of 250 pilots showing up. That is until they close PHX and the rest of the tribe shows up. Just like PSA.

Believing that, now do you still think that usapa's C&R are fair? That usapa wants to fence PHX unless we are forced into the east system than it is DOH.

Where is all of the that fairness and protection that usapa promished? Believing that PHX will close the east just get DOH through the back door. You don't think the judge jury and the west saw your plan?

 

[nic4us]

I am surprised no one seems to have commented on my thoughts of longevity pay. Am I alone in seeing this as a possible solution to the great divide between east and west?

"A possible solution to the damage done by Nic to pilots like myself who find us once again at the very bottom of a seniority list after 20+ years would be to explore longevity based pay. It has merits even without the Nic. Other carriers use it...check out UPS where senior pilots fly domestic 727's and are home every night while Jr pilots fly Int'l 747. It takes away seat lust...training is reduced...you bid lifestyle not equipment. We always negotiate pay starting at the top with wide-body being holy grail. News flash...we don't have enough wide-bodies to go around here at US. Leveling and balancing the pay based on longevity only IS fair...and very doable. I know I don't want to be flying the Atlantic tracks at 65. Puts you in an early grave."


Thoughts????

Depending on what you mean by longevity pay, I believe it is doable and not necessarily in violation of the injunction. However, posters have suggested pay based soley on longevity without regard to seat and equiptment, and I would not be in favor of that. More workable is just a simple extension of F/O payscales. Where captain pay tops out at say 15 years and F/O pay at 15 years equals 65% of 15 yr cpt pay, 20 yrs equals 75% of 15 yr cpt, 25 yrs equals 85% 15 yr cpt pay.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

I am surprised no one seems to have commented on my thoughts of longevity pay. Am I alone in seeing this as a possible solution to the great divide between east and west?


Thoughts????

Longevity pay is a great idea, and it has nothing to do with east versus west.

I would certainly vote for that. Why would anyone want to fly the back side of the clock, taking years off your life, when you could get the same paycheck doing day trips in the E190 or the small bus.

If I am not mistaken, this is exactly how the european airlines pay their pilots, that's why their long haul crews tend to be quite junior. Sign me up.

 

[psw737]

Sign me up for longevity pay as well. When you get to bid for a certain lifestyle rather than chasing the $$$ you tend to be a bit happier. Of course we would need to see some improvements in scheduling to truly benefit from this.

 

[nic4us]

Do you think the East should just sit back and except unfairness. USAPA represents the east fairly . Which happens to be the majority. Thats the way things should work!!!!!!!

This post highlight the entire problem with the east and usapa.

Do I think the east should just sit back and except "unfairness", no, but I do not think it is up to the east to decide what is fair and unfair, you are prejudiced to the results. The Nic is fair for all pilots at LCC, and your whinning about it does not make it unfair.

"USAPA represents the east fairly", and that is why usapa is guilty of failing its DFR. It was designed, campaigned and elected, to favor the east at the expense of the West, based on what the east wanted to be fair, not what the reality of our situation deemed fair.

 

[nic4us]

The blatant injustice is flying 24% of your block hours on East routes. Your "jobs" went out the door when oil rose above $35 a barrel.

To have East pilots on the street while West pilots fly their jobs ....... whatever.

Our "jobs" went out the door when we mergered with the highest cost bankrupt airline in the country, quite possibly the entire world.

The continuing injustice is that 142 West pilots employed on the day of the merger, have been replaced by furloughed east pilots, aided by the convicts at the fake union.

 

[OTTER574]

Depending on what you mean by longevity pay, I believe it is doable and not necessarily in violation of the injunction. However, posters have suggested pay based soley on longevity without regard to seat and equiptment, and I would not be in favor of that. More workable is just a simple extension of F/O payscales. Where captain pay tops out at say 15 years and F/O pay at 15 years equals 65% of 15 yr cpt pay, 20 yrs equals 75% of 15 yr cpt, 25 yrs equals 85% 15 yr cpt pay.

I brought this up years ago to my reps when we were still alpa during east-west JN talks and it fell on deaf ears. I thought this would help move the process forward to extend/increase% the F/O payscales. Brought it up a few months ago to my usapa reps and it was received a bit warmer.

The west already uses one pay rate for all equipment/longevity. It has some good and some bad points.

 

[Pi brat]

And this is why I've added up my damages caused by usapa and will be sending them the bill.

From the document you provided a link to, from Al Hemmingway:

"Under the Transition agreement, an integrated pilot seniority list list cannot be used by the Company until a single agreement has been reached."

Don't spend that money yet. It says "has", not could have, maybe should have, if not but for, but HAS been reached, and it HAS NOT been reached.

 

[Pi brat]

Our "jobs" went out the door when we mergered with the highest cost bankrupt airline in the country, quite possibly the entire world.

The continuing injustice is that 142 West pilots employed on the day of the merger, have been replaced by furloughed east pilots, aided by the convicts at the fake union.

Your jobs, just like the east's, were saved by this merger. You show me where an east pilot has flown an airplane or route not allowed by the TA. As I posted to OTTER above:



"Under the Transition agreement, an integrated pilot seniority list list cannot be used by the Company until a single agreement has been reached."

 

[signals]

I like this song.

So the East formed a union
and demanded date-of-hire
"The West is just too greedy
And the NIC provokes our ire!"

ROTFLMAO B)

 

[nic4us]

Your jobs, just like the east's, were saved by this merger. You show me where an east pilot has flown an airplane or route not allowed by the TA. As I posted to OTTER above:



"Under the Transition agreement, an integrated pilot seniority list list cannot be used by the Company until a single agreement has been reached."

Also from the TA, in regards to seniority integration," furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots".

Yet 8 former east "fuloughed pilots", who were recalled to the West were allowed to transfer back east and retain employment while "active" pilots were shown the door. I assume they are flying the e190 that the West has rights to by the way.

Aided by usapa, who thought it was going to unilaterally rewrite the seniority list, and violate the TA, and let these and other east pilots take West jobs, these 8 are currently flying and should not have been allowed to, as per the TA.

 

[signals]

So UAL & CAL have just become the largest airline (pending approval).

We would appear to be the "ugly chick" left standing against the wall at the prom. I believe the CAL CEO was quoted as saying that LCC in it's present form is ugly.

A few thoughts on where should go from here:
1. If Parker still wants to merge with another airline, he must put forth a true effort to finish contracts with all remaining labor groups.
2. Said labor can help this airline be on top IF given the incentive.
3. USAPA has two choices:
a. Continue to pursue any and all legal avenues pertaining to the seniority list that only result in delay of implementation of the Nicolau Seniority List. Care only about the seniority fight at any and all costs.
b. Drop all further litigation (to include the Cactus 18) IMMEDIATELY. Ramp up contract negotiations like they mean it. Load USAPA with equal numbers of PHL, CLT, & PHX based pilots. Attempt to get all US Airways pilots on the same labor page.

Ladies & Gentlemen;
We have been fractured LONG ENOUGH. Our UNION has paid our legal team over $3 MILLION dollars, and has little success. Further, senior pilots have lost an average of $60,000 a year in wages, time off & scheduling improvements (that could have paid for at least one college education). The battles have been fought, and the seniority list will quite likely stand as delivered. I am speaking to the lurkers that sit and periodically read these boards for entertainment value. You have a voice and the right to be heard by your BPR representatives. Presently USAPA is firmly on course "a". If you wish to make a change for forward progression, a new contract and a chance to keep your job by making the new US Airways a competitor....make that call.

BTW.....I know what Hate, Swanny & the rest of the VNIIMN crowd has to say. If you are a reader, please take the time to respond to this post. I would like to hear your ideas and what you have to say.

Y'all just don't get it and I'm talking to deaf ears. Unless a contract is passed the money is in the bank and your raises are earning US and Parker money in interest alone.

 

[GuntherA320]

Also from the TA, in regards to seniority integration," furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots".

Yet 8 former east "fuloughed pilots", who were recalled to the West were allowed to transfer back east and retain employment while "active" pilots were shown the door. I assume they are flying the e190 that the West has rights to by the way.

Aided by usapa, who thought it was going to unilaterally rewrite the seniority list, and violate the TA, and let these and other east pilots take West jobs, these 8 are currently flying and should not have been allowed to, as per the TA.

Actually it was 6 "east" pilots, not 8. But you've never let embellishment stop you before so I'm not so sure it matters now. And no...they are not flying the E190.....they are on the A320, 737, and 757/767 International. When the east starts recalling later this year, I'm sure the West furloughed pilots will be offered positions at the bottom of the East seniority list after all of the other East hired pilots from 2007 and 2008 have been recalled. That is....if they want to come back as an E190 F/O.

 

[OTTER574]

From the document you provided a link to, from Al Hemmingway:

"Under the Transition agreement, an integrated pilot seniority list list cannot be used by the Company until a single agreement has been reached."

Don't spend that money yet. It says "has", not could have, maybe should have, if not but for, but HAS been reached, and it HAS NOT been reached.

You had that same right under alpa cba and still do under usapa cba. Nothing new here but the problem is, you on the east can't form a union to break federal law. BTW, not spending that money from this so called airline merger. I never expected it. Seems gold is in right now..

Believe you me, never in a MILLION YEARS did I ever want to work for us air. Having gone through 2 airline bankruptcies and losing my A plan (pbgc annual report) in the process, all under the alpa umbrella btw. Makes you sit back and become somewhat guarded for misdeeds of others.

Pi brat, the list is done, move on or face the consequences.