US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[cleardirect]

We already got the message. Arizona has some bizarre legal ways. Coming soon, Arizona Legal, starring Judge Neil Wake. Unfortunately, what could have been an interesting but bizarre show, is going to get cancelled by the Ninth.

Why can you guys not understand this? The DFR trial was held in a FEDERAL court under FEDERAL rules. Leaning on the point that it was held in AZ means nothing.

But since you think that everyone has it out for you and that the ninth is going to save your day. Maybe you forgot that Seham has gone to the ninth a couple of times.

Before the trial started usapa filed an emergency stay for the entire trial and appealed the class action certification. That appeal was denied by the ninth.

Seham appealed the federal injunction back in August. That was denied by the ninth.

Seham filed two demands to strike 28 (J) letters. That was denied by the ninth.

Usapa filed an emergency stay of the FEDERAL injunction. That was denied by the ninth.

The appeal of the entire case is still pending. But looking pretty good for the west.

Those denials where not by an AZ judge, they were done by other federal judges outside of AZ looking at the law. You really do need to start thinking about who has the bizarre understanding of the law. The east pilots and Seham or the rest of the country.

Don’t forget the complete usapa defeat in a NC FEDERAL court room with the cactus 18.

 

[cactusboy53]

So UAL & CAL have just become the largest airline (pending approval).

We would appear to be the "ugly chick" left standing against the wall at the prom. I believe the CAL CEO was quoted as saying that LCC in it's present form is ugly.

A few thoughts on where should go from here:
1. If Parker still wants to merge with another airline, he must put forth a true effort to finish contracts with all remaining labor groups.
2. Said labor can help this airline be on top IF given the incentive.
3. USAPA has two choices:
a. Continue to pursue any and all legal avenues pertaining to the seniority list that only result in delay of implementation of the Nicolau Seniority List. Care only about the seniority fight at any and all costs.
b. Drop all further litigation (to include the Cactus 18) IMMEDIATELY. Ramp up contract negotiations like they mean it. Load USAPA with equal numbers of PHL, CLT, & PHX based pilots. Attempt to get all US Airways pilots on the same labor page.

Ladies & Gentlemen;
We have been fractured LONG ENOUGH. Our UNION has paid our legal team over $3 MILLION dollars, and has little success. Further, senior pilots have lost an average of $60,000 a year in wages, time off & scheduling improvements (that could have paid for at least one college education). The battles have been fought, and the seniority list will quite likely stand as delivered. I am speaking to the lurkers that sit and periodically read these boards for entertainment value. You have a voice and the right to be heard by your BPR representatives. Presently USAPA is firmly on course "a". If you wish to make a change for forward progression, a new contract and a chance to keep your job by making the new US Airways a competitor....make that call.

BTW.....I know what Hate, Swanny & the rest of the VNIIMN crowd has to say. If you are a reader, please take the time to respond to this post. I would like to hear your ideas and what you have to say.

 

[nic4us]

How many pilots want to retire on LOA 93.....none....how many EAST moveups under NIC....damn few, how many moveups under sep ops....ALL OF THEM. Getting tired of schooling you..

VNIIMN
NPJB

As usual you make no sense and have no understanding of the situation or how the Nic would effect upgrades.

First, if the retirements star immediately, then those retirements happen under LOA93 and those pilots had 3 years of better pay and bennies taken from them. If we stay in seperate ops for say another 5 years, then all of those retirements would happen under LOA93. Seperate ops equals LOA93, get it yet?

Second, How many east pilots move up under the Nic, ALL OF THEM, but they move up with better pay and benefits. How many move up under seperate ops, all of them except the ones who have little upward mobility left and the best improvement in their life would be a bigger paycheck and/or a Phoenix domicile. Also, you risk many if the company decides to take away more from the east operation, like say the remaining e190s.

If you are tired of schooling, then stop, the info you put out is negative learning.

 

[hp_fa]

A few thoughts on where should go from here:
1. If Parker still wants to merge with another airline, he must put forth a true effort to finish contracts with all remaining labor groups.

Parker wanted consolidation. He got it. Maybe he saw this coming and played the game expecting this outcome, knowing that it would lead to consolidation. It's possible...

2. Said labor can help this airline be on top IF given the incentive.

The company, in their response to the federal mediator, showed that they are well aware of the Nic and are playing that up. Frankly I fully expect that they expect that the 9th will uphold at least the major issues in Addington. As others have also noted, their attorney Siegel wrote the book about these kinds of labor issues and Judge Wake actually acknowledged that in a proceeding after the trial.

3. USAPA has two choices:
a. Continue to pursue any and all legal avenues pertaining to the seniority list that only result in delay of implementation of the Nicolau Seniority List. Care only about the seniority fight at any and all costs.
b. Drop all further litigation (to include the Cactus 18) IMMEDIATELY. Ramp up contract negotiations like they mean it. Load USAPA with equal numbers of PHL, CLT, & PHX based pilots. Attempt to get all US Airways pilots on the same labor page.

I expect that the Addington attorneys are already thinking about a Motion to Show Cause to Judge Wake regarding the behavior of USAPA, which has tried to get around Nicolau, at least according to the analysis in the company's letter to the mediator. The attorneys are simply waiting for the 9th to rule. Once they do, and if Addington is substantively affirmed, then I expect something to be filed in the following two weeks. (No, I don't have inside information, I am reading all the various tea leaves.)

USAPA had a wonderful chance to graciously accept Nicolau, change the C&BL and move forward. They failed to take that opportunity and I suspect Seham preferred it that way since the bill machine would get more work with the parties in dispute. Since Seham is general counsel, litigation counsel, appellate counsel and apparently doing some of the grievance work, the more disputes ongoing mean the more $$$ flowing to him and his firm. Hiring Seham was Bradford's biggest single mistake.

 

[end_of_alpa]

So UAL & CAL have just become the largest airline (pending approval).

We would appear to be the "ugly chick" left standing against the wall at the prom. I believe the CAL CEO was quoted as saying that LCC in it's present form is ugly.

A few thoughts on where should go from here:
1. If Parker still wants to merge with another airline, he must put forth a true effort to finish contracts with all remaining labor groups.
2. Said labor can help this airline be on top IF given the incentive.
3. USAPA has two choices:
a. Continue to pursue any and all legal avenues pertaining to the seniority list that only result in delay of implementation of the Nicolau Seniority List. Care only about the seniority fight at any and all costs.
b. Drop all further litigation (to include the Cactus 18) IMMEDIATELY. Ramp up contract negotiations like they mean it. Load USAPA with equal numbers of PHL, CLT, & PHX based pilots. Attempt to get all US Airways pilots on the same labor page.

Ladies & Gentlemen;
We have been fractured LONG ENOUGH. Our UNION has paid our legal team over $3 MILLION dollars, and has little success. Further, senior pilots have lost an average of $60,000 a year in wages, time off & scheduling improvements (that could have paid for at least one college education). The battles have been fought, and the seniority list will quite likely stand as delivered. I am speaking to the lurkers that sit and periodically read these boards for entertainment value. You have a voice and the right to be heard by your BPR representatives. Presently USAPA is firmly on course "a". If you wish to make a change for forward progression, a new contract and a chance to keep your job by making the new US Airways a competitor....make that call.

BTW.....I know what Hate, Swanny & the rest of the VNIIMN crowd has to say. If you are a reader, please take the time to respond to this post. I would like to hear your ideas and what you have to say.

I would, but you won't like the answer!

 

[luvthe9]

.

Ladies & Gentlemen;
We have been fractured LONG ENOUGH. Our UNION has paid our legal team over $3 MILLION dollars, and has little success. Further, senior pilots have lost an average of $60,000 a year in wages, time off & scheduling improvements (that could have paid for at least one college education). The battles have been fought, and the seniority list will quite likely stand as delivered. I am speaking to the lurkers that sit and periodically read these boards for entertainment value. You have a voice and the right to be heard by your BPR representatives. Presently USAPA is firmly on course "a". If you wish to make a change for forward progression, a new contract and a chance to keep your job by making the new US Airways a competitor....make that call.

BTW.....I know what Hate, Swanny & the rest of the VNIIMN crowd has to say. If you are a reader, please take the time to respond to this post. I would like to hear your ideas and what you have to say.

Don't forget me!!! I agree, although the West has to give up on the Nic and stop suing thier union all the time then we might be able to get some where. Let's all work together.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Don't forget me!!! I agree, although the West has to give up on the Nic and stop suing thier union all the time then we might be able to get some where. Let's all work together.

That will happen when (real, farm animal) pigs grow wings and fly!!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Don't forget me!!! I agree, although the West has to give up on the Nic and stop suing thier union all the time then we might be able to get some where. Let's all work together.

Right. So the group that has been proven to be correct by the courts and who are clearly the injured party in this protracted battle should stop seeking the justice that is legitimately and rightfully theirs in exchange for peace? I can’t think of any examples in history where the injured party surrendered and ceased fighting with the guilty, immoral and hedonistic party that attacked them and that such a surrender resulted in a benefit to the injured party. Please enlighten us with examples of why this is a good strategy. Did it work out for the French in WWII? Has “land for peace” ever worked in Israel? Personally I don’t recommend giving those who have a penchant for injuring the innocent more opportunities and latitude to do it again.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't forget me!!! I agree, although the West has to give up on the Nic and stop suing thier union all the time then we might be able to get some where. Let's all work together.

Let's see. The west has filed suit once so far. Not really all the time. We won that suit because usapa did not represent the west fairly. I guess you would have prefered that the west just sit back and except unfairness.

Now the other suit was filed by usapa against west pilots. Would you consider one suit all the time also? What was the outcome of that suit? Yep dismissed with prejudice, meaning that usapa lost.

So if you truly would like to move forward together it is up to usapa to drop all of the law suits and concentrate on leading instead of spending money and wasting time on lawyers.

usapa has lost these two suit but have appealed. That was usapas choice. It should be the pilots choice to continue to the SCOTUS. Willing to agree not to go to SCOTUS when usapa loses in the ninth to move forward together?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Right. So the group that has been proven to be correct by the courts and who are clearly the injured party in this protracted battle should stop seeking the justice that is legitimately and rightfully theirs in exchange for peace? I can’t think of any examples in history where the injured party surrendered and ceased fighting with the guilty, immoral and hedonistic party that attacked them and that such a surrender resulted in a benefit to the injured party. Please enlighten us with examples of why this is a good strategy. Did it work out for the French in WWII? Has “land for peace” ever worked in Israel? Personally I don’t recommend giving those who have a penchant for injuring the innocent more opportunities and latitude to do it again.

This is why we won't get a CBA.

 

[OTTER574]

This is why we won't get a CBA.

And this is why I've added up my damages caused by usapa and will be sending them the bill.

 

[OTTER574]

Don't forget me!!! I agree, although the West has to give up on the Nic and stop suing thier union all the time then we might be able to get some where. Let's all work together.

The list is done thanks to usapa founders, current usapa officers and lee seham. Change one dot of an i or a cross of a t on the NIC and you will be IN CONTEMPT of a Federal Court Order.

 

[end_of_alpa]

And this is why I've added up my damages caused by usapa and will be sending them the bill.

And this is why USAPA will be decertified in a "straw man" ballot and you'll get nothing.

 

[OTTER574]

And this is why USAPA will be decertified in a "straw man" ballot and you'll get nothing.

Now were're back to decertifying usapa bs again. I read on here something about farm animals and when they fly, LOL. Enjoy all those union grievances that will go away or get stalled forever without a so called union.

Usapa has made it's own bed and broke federal law in the process. Get comfortable in usapa's bed with regards to the final and binding NIC Award and the Federal Injunction, because it's here to stay.

You must be one of those pilots that wear the UNION PILOT backer id. What a shame.

 

[Flippin43]

And this is why USAPA will be decertified in a "straw man" ballot and you'll get nothing.

So, you think a Federal Judge is going to let your BPR just pull the ripcord on usapa and walk away from any judgement that may be handed down.


Good Luck with that.


Flip