US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[Black Swan]

So, you guys believe Doug when he tells you the west is doing 24% of your flying, but you think everything else he says is BS? The man has one purpose in life and that's to keep us fighting each other as long as possible.

The reason west pilots could not support pay parity is that it would have removed all incentive for the east to negotiate a new CBA. Doug would still have transferred 8000 hours per month of our flying out there because your contract would still be more efficient, even at the same hourly pay rates.

The factual information I was referring to was the breakdown of the Nic list by others on this board, which clearly shows that it is not the boogyman you think it is. But then you don't really care about that, do you? What you really want is the ability to jump start your crappy career by leapfrogging west pilots by 30 or 40% seniority overnight. Until you admit that, there just isn't much more to discuss.

You are benefitting, so you think, from the East pilots on LOA 93. I think it is actually coming home to roost for the West. Anyway, we are well adjusted to it. We aren't taking any Nic bait. You can take that to the bank. We have a lot of upside to look forward to. Never underestimate the patience of an angry man........

 

[TheBadCat1313]

You are benefitting, so you think, from the East pilots on LOA 93. I think it is actually coming home to roost for the West. Anyway, we are well adjusted to it. We aren't taking any Nic bait. You can take that to the bank. We have a lot of upside to look forward to. Never underestimate the patience of an angry man........

It's not that we're "benefitting" from east pilots on LOA 93 as much as it is that we would be in a position of less leverage if you had pay parity.

 

[Black Swan]

It's not that we're "benefitting" from east pilots on LOA 93 as much as it is that we would be in a position of less leverage if you had pay parity.

Cat, the fact you are paid more now gives you significantly less leverage with the company. Division is always exploited by the company. They are going to shift everything they can away from you. Had everything been equal, there is no advantage of using one group to do a job the other could. Perhaps the lower paid group would take a pay rate that is not much above your current rate. And consider it a decent raise. That is the danger.

 

[TheBadCat1313]

Cat, the fact you are paid more now gives you significantly less leverage with the company. Division is always exploited by the company. They are going to shift everything they can away from you. Had everything been equal, there is no advantage of using one group to do a job the other could. Perhaps the lower paid group would take a pay rate that is not much above your current rate. And consider it a decent raise. That is the danger.

They already HAVE shifted everything they can away from us. They've been at the TA block hour minimums for quite a while now and it's only a matter of time before they need to start west recalls. The west is starting to get pretty short handed and it's not even summer yet. On the other hand, east still has 15 more 190's they can park before they need to recall anyone.

Come on, dude. Get with the program. Let's get this thing together, get a contract with a raise for everyone and move it forward.

 

[traderjake]

You are benefitting, so you think, from the East pilots on LOA 93..............
Anyway, we are well adjusted to it......

In fact we like it so much we are fighting to keep it.

Thanks USAPA for the $85 per hour pay rate for the last two years.

 

[luvn737s]

Ahem. Which side did not support parity pay?

Ahem, which union was unwilling to open section 6 negotiations on behalf of west pilots?

 

[OTTER574]

Support a B-Scale in your airline, and it just might come back to bite you............

Please clearly explain B-scale and the E190 rates east pilots fly under and agreed to? If the E190 were suppose to replace the B737 mainline as the company stated, than this rate should be the same as the B737, don't you think? I thought it should be. I was never for the E190 rate because of this, told my reps but they were so proud of bringing this AC onto the property and stating "we'll get a better contract soon." That was over 3 years ago.

I call this your B-Scale that you agreed to and you on the east still continue to fly under to this day. Why, just ask yourselves?

 

[nic4us]

Ahem. Which side did not support parity pay?
Also, the company has given the WEST 24% of the east flying. The east only performs 4% of the WEST flying.
You do the math.
Talk about logical responses.....
Cheers.

Everyone needs to go listen to what Parker said again. He did not say the West is doing 24% of its flying, operating formerly east routes. He definitely did not say the company gave 24% of the east flying to the West, as Poug stated above. He said they looked at it because we were asking the question. and that the West was doing something like 24% of its flying on "what would traditionally be considered an east route". i.e. 24% of west flying no longer hubs thru LAS and PHX.

To the pay parity comment. we have been over this many times. The West supported parity until the east had their meltdown and refused to follow their contractual obligations by walking out of contract negotiations. You could have had parity, you left it at the table you were required to attend. Then the West supported the company's position of parity through a joint contract.

 

[Ames]

Ahem. Which side did not support parity pay?
Also, the company has given the WEST 24% of the east flying. The east only performs 4% of the WEST flying.
You do the math.
Talk about logical responses.....
Cheers.

The east withdrew from negotiations. Should the west have rewarded that by supporting pay parity, which would further delay any gains for the west? In regards to east/west flying each other's routes, please explain where the west's share of new flying is. Where is our agreed upon share of additional 757 and 190 slots? Not to mention our share of additional 330's. If the west is stealing so much east flying could you also explain how usapa won the TA10 arbitration which proved the company has gone below agreed upon block hours for the west?

I will continue to point out that east posters are desperate to prove their point. Any point. Regardless of its truth or relevance.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Everyone needs to go listen to what Parker said again. He did not say the West is doing 24% of its flying, operating formerly east routes. He definitely did not say the company gave 24% of the east flying to the West, as Poug stated above. He said they looked at it because we were asking the question. and that the West was doing something like 24% of its flying on "what would traditionally be considered an east route". i.e. 24% of west flying no longer hubs thru LAS and PHX.

To the pay parity comment. we have been over this many times. The West supported parity until the east had their meltdown and refused to follow their contractual obligations by walking out of contract negotiations. You could have had parity, you left it at the table you were required to attend. Then the West supported the company's position of parity through a joint contract.

Please avoid using the truth in this discussion. It's just to confusing.

The east enjoys their B scale and will continue to brag about publicly. They have their 'shared' $35 million this year and next which will evenly distribute the $$ to everyone, further degrading the pay of those at the top of the list. There is no real drive for pay parity as the NC is just going through the motions of trying to get a contract. It's all about the delay. NPJB

In the last 5 years I have made a substantially larger amount than my counter part on the east and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

What really confuses me though is the age 60 to 65 group that just got handed a huge bonus. On the west it comes to some where in the $750k area. The east has willing given up almost a full years income from the pay disparity. Your leaders can spout retro pay all they want but as the clock ticks away the years the chances of retro pay become less and less. NPJB

So continue on, VNIIMN. I know it's just your principles.

 

[Ames]

Support a B-Scale in your airline, and it just might come back to bite you............

Once the ninth rules we will see who gets bitten.

 

[Ames]

. Never underestimate the patience of an angry man........

Never underestimate the foolishness of an angry man. When has anger ever accomplished anything but something to regret?

 

[Ames]

Cat, the fact you are paid more now gives you significantly less leverage with the company. Division is always exploited by the company. They are going to shift everything they can away from you. Had everything been equal, there is no advantage of using one group to do a job the other could. Perhaps the lower paid group would take a pay rate that is not much above your current rate. And consider it a decent raise. That is the danger.

This is very good reasoning as to why the east should not have walked out of negotiations when they did. So why blame the west? You guys continue to look for ways to blame the west for all of the bad decisions that you have made. Truly sad.

 

[Pi brat]

Where are the answers to my question? Clear, Aqua? It's an easy question-do you want the Kirby put out for a vote? Everyone is yelling for a contract, but they ignore the fact that all the company has really offered is that POS.

 

[cleardirect]

Where are the answers to my question? Clear, Aqua? It's an easy question-do you want the Kirby put out for a vote? Everyone is yelling for a contract, but they ignore the fact that all the company has really offered is that POS.

The Kirby was a company PROPOSAL. You guys know that word right? That was a starting point 8 1/2 years ago. Delta rates have become the industry. usapa has told us that they are going to get an industry standard contract right?

Under oath it was established that the company was wiling to go 8-10% above that even back then.

So no as proposed the first Kirby will not pass.

But put the Kirby with delta pay rates on the table. Any bets what would happen?

The east pilots would jump on that very quickly.