US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here

[EastUS]

Nothing will be shoved in anyone's faces.

Most of us on the west realize that the east's actions have cost all of us quite a lot and won't forget that any time soon.

tazz: "Just as I won't care how offensive you will find the verdict in the upcoming trial...
Your desperation is showing. I am so looking forward to the first week of May."

But, of course = "Nothing will be shoved in anyone's faces." In the event of a west triumph in court; I could more easily imagine the sheeted "faithful" out there dancing in the streets and discharging their Aks skyward in the fullest frenzy of "righteous" intoxication

West hypocrisy truly knows no bounds whatsoever

Whatever transpires in court is unlikely to have any immediate effect on anything. Whichever side finds itself ruled against will doubtless appeal. There will be no magically instantaneous contractual resolution. The obvious animosity will certainly remain, or worse, even become enhanced. The groups will still find themselves in seperate operations. The day to day issues will remain. I wish that things were different, but they're not.

 

[hp_fa]

Whatever transpires in court is unlikely to have any immediate effect on anything. Whichever side finds itself ruled against will doubtless appeal. There will be no magically instantaneous contractual resolution. The obvious animosity will certainly remain, or worse, even become enhanced. The groups will still find themselves in seperate operations. The day to day issues will remain. I wish that things were different, but they're not.

Hi EastUS. I respecfully agree and provisionally disagree.

I agree that the animosity is now such that the atmosphere between East and West is and will continue to be toxic. That is very unfortunate, but I think that is true.

I provisionally disagree on any immediate effects. **If** Judge Wake rules in favor of West and issues an injunction and/or a jury finding against USAPA there will be immediate effects. Even if any decision is stayed and or appealed I would expect that any and all negotiations between USAPA and the company regarding any contractual matters would cease. That does not include grievances and other day-to-day issues, but it would be regarding any negotiations that affect the workgroup at large and any issues that may concern any issues that could be affected in connection with seniority and any other issues at odds with the present standing and the Nicolau decision. The company would be insane to negotiate with a district court ruling against USAPA in connection with any such issues. However, **if** Judge Wake and/or the jury were to rule in favor of USAPA then I could see business proceeding as normal pending any possible West appeal.

 

[EastUS]

Hi EastUS. I respecfully agree and provisionally disagree.

I agree that the animosity is now such that the atmosphere between East and West is and will continue to be toxic. That is very unfortunate, but I think that is true.

I provisionally disagree on any immediate effects. **If** Judge Wake rules in favor of West and issues an injunction and/or a jury finding against USAPA there will be immediate effects. Even if any decision is stayed and or appealed I would expect that any and all negotiations between USAPA and the company regarding any contractual matters would cease.

....However, **if** Judge Wake and/or the jury were to rule in favor of USAPA then I could see business proceeding as normal pending any possible West appeal.

While we can never know the future; the above observations I have no argument with.

 

[EastUS]

Patsy Cline? Willie Nelson wrote that song but Patsy Cline turned in the best cover of it.

For those east pilots too young to remember,

1) There's an issue we can find complete agreement on. How many times do we ever hear a song rendered from any particular artist that "everybody" knows so well?

2) Good one there..

 

[Captain Underpants]

.... I would expect that any and all negotiations between USAPA and the company regarding any contractual matters would cease. ........ However, **if** Judge Wake and/or the jury were to rule in favor of USAPA then I could see business proceeding as normal pending any possible West appeal.

HP_FA

Yes I agree completely. USAPA in court documents described a DFR finding as a "death knell" for a joint CBA.

The law specifically allows the union to change the seniority list provided it benefits the pilot group as a whole and it is not done without reason.

The jury will be asked to decide if destroying any chance for a joint contract by trying to force Nic or allowing USAPA to solve the problem and proceed with business as normal as you describe benefits the pilot group as whole. The West pilots are asking to be allowed to continue to try to pound a square peg into a round hole which we all know is impossible.

underpants

 

[Tiger 1050]

HP_FA

Yes I agree completely. USAPA in court documents described a DFR finding as a "death knell" for a joint CBA.

The law specifically allows the union to change the seniority list provided it benefits the pilot group as a whole and it is not done without reason.

The jury will be asked to decide if destroying any chance for a joint contract by trying to force Nic or allowing USAPA to solve the problem and proceed with business as normal as you describe benefits the pilot group as whole. The West pilots are asking to be allowed to continue to try to pound a square peg into a round hole which we all know is impossible.

underpants

I love it! USAPA is going to solve the problem Mr/Mrs Juror! Just give them a chance. Nevermind that the reason we are here is due to their arbitrary actions.

Good stuff Underpants! Good stuff!

 

[Captain Underpants]

I love it! USAPA is going to solve the problem Mr/Mrs Juror! Just give them a chance. Nevermind that the reason we are here is due to their arbitrary actions.

Well yes obviously if Nic was fair and equitable there wouldn't be a problem. The question remaining is how not if the problem gets solved.

The West lawyers have already conceded that USAPA's actions were not arbitrary. They are trying desperately to exclude the evidence as to why USAPA took action. They don't want the jury to hear USAPA prove their actions were not arbitrary because that means the Nic list itself goes on trial. Read the 4/7 court documents....very interesting.

underpants

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

HP_FA

>>>>>snip


The West pilots are asking to be allowed to continue to try to pound a square peg into a round hole which we all know is impossible.

underpants

The law provides for substantial leeway regarding the decision Judge Wake can render. He will be quite capable of rearranging the geometry of usapa's round hole, should he so choose.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The law provides for substantial leeway regarding the decision Judge Wake can render. He will be quite capable of rearranging the geometry of usapa's round hole, should he so choose.

And, I imagine that the appeals court is just as capable of rearranging the geometry of Judge Wake's round hole, too. No?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Well yes obviously if Nic was fair and equitable there wouldn't be a problem. The question remaining is how not if the problem gets solved.

The issue at hand is not how we solve your problem with the Nic. There is only one problem. USAPA's failure to fairly represent ALL pilots here at LCC. How do we fix that? By fulfilling our agreements.

You (east) risked as much as we (west) did by going to arbitration. Now USAPA is using greater numbers to thwart the implementation of the outcome of this arbitration thereby causing harm to a minority group. It really isn't that complicated...

The West lawyers have already conceded that USAPA's actions were not arbitrary. They are trying desperately to exclude the evidence as to why USAPA took action. They don't want the jury to hear USAPA prove their actions were not arbitrary because that means the Nic list itself goes on trial. Read the 4/7 court documents....very interesting.

underpants

Hmmm. I haven't hear this before. I'll go read...

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are usapa. We can jack anyone and everyone around for as long as we like.

 

[Elevation]

Docket 320 is out (plaintiff proposed limine order) and AOL will go 9 out of 9 in the proposed shutting down of Seham's BS defense strategy.

A taste:

1."USAPA is precluded from offering any evidence, testimony or argument that Nicolau Arbitration was unfair, unreasonable or contrary to ALPA merger policy" and it gets better after that.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Docket 320 is out and AOL went 9 out of 9 in the proposed shutting down of Seham's BS defense strategy.

Well that was going to be my next question for Cpt Underpants. How did the Court rule on these motions...?

 

[hp_fa]

Docket 320 is out (plaintiff proposed limine order) and AOL went 9 out of 9 in the proposed shutting down of Seham's BS defense strategy.

Did the court rule? I thought the language in the Proposed Order was **if** the court grants Plaintiff's MIL 1-9?

 

[Captain Underpants]

Docket 320 is out and AOL went 9 out of 9 in the proposed shutting down of Seham's BS defense strategy.

Sorry you must have misread the document. Doc 320 is simply the Plaintiff's request to exclude the evidence with suggested wording for the Judge. The Judge will rule during the trial as each piece of evidence is submitted.

It is rare for defense evidence to not be admitted since the Judge would run the risk of having the decision overturned on appeal or a mistrial declared.

Nice try though......

underpants