ClueByFour
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Since the judge is deciding on any remedies, I would not wager against the west pilots getting their money back on that score.
US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here
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Since the judge is deciding on any remedies, I would not wager against the west pilots getting their money back on that score.
ClueByFour
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The EICAS just annunciated "BS." Why appeal it if the purpose was "just to stop the sabotage?"
Metroyet
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EastUS
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Umm..and your supposed familiarity with EICAS comes from where and what exactly? 🙄 Sigh...Oh well..at least the "BS" part's nothing new....
now thats funny........Do you think that this expense will jeopardize the construction of the USAPA museum? Will the showcase van exhibit be eliminated due to the need to sell the van to pay expenses and damages? Perhaps the adjacent theme park "Pirates of the CarelessSeham" will help offset things.
Tazz....whats really so important about the first week of May. Will that be the day you can shove the decision in the face of all out east. This day was going to come sooner or later, I will be glad it's over, I hope so anyway. But really, following the first week of May, comes the second week. Nothing really changes, still have sepr. ops, still have people on furlough, still have no new contract, still need to get this company in order, still bad economic times, if you win, enjoy your day, but looking at the big picture who cares. I hope your not looking for a big pay day thats going to eliminate all your financial concerns, you may be dissappointed. All this day will bring hopefully is an end to all the bitterness on both sides. It will begin a time to move in step together, for all mature enough to realize thats the best for all, for those who can't....oh well. If you win, enjoy your day, buy your party poppers, and have fun.
Patsy Cline? Willie Nelson wrote that song but Patsy Cline turned in the best cover of it. I once heard a young Southwest flight attendant do a version of it over the PA but she changed the lyrics to "Crazy....Crazy for flying other aitlines" I remember thinking, wow she actually has a great voice and how do they get them to drink that much kool-aid?
Now I am just..."Wondrin....What in the world did I do"
For those east pilots too young to remember, Patsy Cline was a country crossover star who became a little more famous posthumously after being killed in a plane crash, similar to Ritchie Valens. Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Megasnoop
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Another guestimate disguised as fact. Youre not even close. At least your not in the hp-fa $5M camp. Since inception, first year USAPA attorney fees <$188K. Our cost for the RICO <$50K. Thats what the 2008 LM-2 says. Your side was $5K each? Works out to $90K in dog dollars. RGs personal attorney pocketed some big bucks. Wonder if he got an ID-90 from his friend while the other 17 paid full price. No matter what the DFR cost, you guys are paying 1/3 of it from dues. Thanks.
And you should know, Jake, since your crowd was in office. Oh wait, that was when ALPA was still CBA! You took a poll, not! That was when you were suing the West. That was when YOU were doing everything you could to fight the NIC and stall negotiations. Now you blame the East rank and file? Sorry, Jake, not buying it.
But just to set the record straight, the 17% offer? How do you know? Oh, I forgot, you were still part of the ALPA problem, not the USAPA solution. YOUR MEC rejected it. Dont whine about it 2 years later.
BTW, the company offer isnt 17% any more. That offer disappeared when YOUR MEC stopped negotiations summer of 2007. If any group is stalling right now, its the company.
Senor Snoop
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Actually, that's for only the first 2 months of USAPA's existence - you need to pay more attention to when the bills were paid and less to "Gee - look how little was spent". The Rico suit wasn't dismissed until after that (the legal meter was still running) and the other suits hadn't even started yet (those bills were still to come).
Jim
Surely, by now if you are really "east", you know that openers are just that, proposals only. Was it a unilateral proposal, with no strings? Perhaps you would like to present or reference the entire "package"? and it was proposed during the ramp up with the arbitrator? as a bribe? Hmmmmm
hp_fa
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Mega, Jim is correct. What I was discussing was inclusive fees and costs from inception until the end of trial. I obviously don't know Seham's billing practices as far as bill presentation and pay dates. So I was taking the inclusive time-period view. Also, to be clear, I had said a minimum of $1 mil and that I wouldn't be surprised at $5 mil.
cleardirect
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Mega Snoop et al,
Time to do a little math. Early on usapa announced that they had gotten Seham for half price while setting up the association, $125 per hour. So that means Seham charges $250 per hour. Nick Granath, Stan Silverstone are probably the same price.
Just looking at the depositions. Each deposition ran about 4 hours. Figure about two hours prep work and an hour or more post depo. Minimum 6 hours plus a little extra for travel, transcription, an extra lawyer at $250. It adds up very quickly. Just as an estimate, figure somewhere between $500 -$1000 per page filed with the court. Go count up the number of pages filed in the Addington case. You blow through that $500,000 guess many months ago.
Take into account all of the other legal expenses involved with running an association. Grievances, negotiations, the Suzie arbitration was $10,000 for the arbitrator. How many hours of prep work did that take? $250 time X. Equals another big number.
HP-FA, BB are correct. The LM-2 was only two months.
Can I make a suggestion. Call your rep. Ask them for an estimate on the legal expenses then get back to us. I can tell you what their answer will be. They do not know. Not that they will not tell you. They do not know. Ask your rep if he has read all of the filings. The same rep that has the financial responsibility for your union. How your dues money is spent. Ask your rep who is deciding legal strategy. The lawyer or the reps? Was Seham handed a blank check book and let loose or is there a committee within usapa that is makeing decisions?
Yes that is my guess $1.9 million based on some rough numbers. If you think much less take the under.
Ps. The RICO lawsuit was closer to $150,000 total not $50,000. The LM-2 was before the case was dismissed with prejudice and before the appeal was filed. Do you still think it was worth the cost?
On or about the first week of may most of this controversy will be over with. Should the west prevail the results of the arbitrtation that we paid for four years ago will finally be honored. Nothing will be shoved in anyone's faces. Of course, the east will look at it that way because they didn't fulfill their obligations in the first place and anything that isn't exactly what they want would be considered shoved in their faces.
I am not looking for a big pay day nor do I have any financial concerns. I simply want this BS over with. Despite your comments, following the verdict things will be very different around here, at least in the real world. Ending the bitterness will take a lot of time. Most of us on the west realize that the east's actions have cost all of us quite a lot and won't forget that any time soon. Despite that fact I honestly don't expect to be disappointed.
Harry Callahan
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You know from reading comments in this & other pilot labor threads if you all that post here represent the pilot group, I would be afraid to fly with you. Comments here are very unprofessional.
L
luvn737s
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I'[d like to add to Tazz's comment and that if a verdict is handed down that the Nic must be honored, then that provides closure for those who feel that justice has been denied through USAPA's marginalizing of the west.
What happens after that? Well then ideally USAPA will see it's need to be far more inclusive of the west, even at the risk of dissing off their more vocal and radical fringe supporters. At least a legal starting line will have been established. Then it will be up to the union leadership to make reasonable expectations and work hard to make sure they are delivered 100%.
Reconstruction of the South following the Civil War was a misnomer, as it was forever changed from what it had been. The Reconstruction of this pilot group will require everyone to re-think what their union is and what it will be like moving forward. As history has proven, it often takes time and involves pain to make those kinds of changes in outlook, but the alternative is not a viable option.
What happens after that? Well then ideally USAPA will see it's need to be far more inclusive of the west, even at the risk of dissing off their more vocal and radical fringe supporters. At least a legal starting line will have been established. Then it will be up to the union leadership to make reasonable expectations and work hard to make sure they are delivered 100%.
Reconstruction of the South following the Civil War was a misnomer, as it was forever changed from what it had been. The Reconstruction of this pilot group will require everyone to re-think what their union is and what it will be like moving forward. As history has proven, it often takes time and involves pain to make those kinds of changes in outlook, but the alternative is not a viable option.
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