US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Richard]

Here's the thread for the new week.

For those of you needing a refresher, you may discuss the ISSUES all you want. You may NOT insult attack or call names of POSTERS, INDIVIDUALS or GROUPS.

It's about the issues not the people. And NO FLAME BAIT.

Posts which do not conform to these rules will be deleted without comment, and time off will be granted.

The issue is in court now--nothing anyone says here will affect the outcome... so let's take a deep breath and think before we post......

Thank you.

 

[nic4us]

The instances cited don't involve any "45 year old West" anything, versus much older and more experienced east people..and you know it full well. The nic "list" places west people that weren't even BORN when many out east began professional flying careers, ahead of and "senior" to said east pilots..and you know that as well. Enough with the ridiculous "spin" attempts.....

Okay, first it was in the 6th grade, now it is not even born, a difference of 12 years. I am not going to go thru pilot by pilot to find your instance.

Here is what I do know. I know that I am over 45 years old. I am a West 320 lineholding captain. In my new hire class and the class immediately following there were numerous pilots hired that were older than me. The pilot placed 1 number junior to me on the Nic list held roughly the same position as myself, although he was more junior in his system's seniority, he is also older than me, but not older than the most senior pilot hired in my new hire class.

On the DOH seniority list I would be placed below furloughs some of whom were probably in the 6th grade on the date I got my pilots liscensce. My overall system seniority would be absolutely devestated. The promised C&R's, which further rob me of my job, could be changed as circumstances vary at the will of the negotiators who feel our seniority is negotiable.

No spin, just facts.

 

[flybynite]

I read that article that was posted on the closed thread and I have to say it really irked me.

Do the people in Arizona really believe AWA bought US Airways?

 

[ableoneable]

I read that article that was posted on the closed thread and I have to say it really irked me.

Do the people in Arizona really believe AWA bought US Airways?

They did.

Let's take this thread around the pattern again because we have not covered the who saved whom argument in enough detail yet.

Plus it is a moderator favorite. I see their BP rising already.

 

[ussnark]

On the DOH seniority list I would be placed below furloughs some of whom were probably in the 6th grade on the date I got my pilots liscensce. My overall system seniority would be absolutely devestated. The promised C&R's, which further rob me of my job, could be changed as circumstances vary at the will of the negotiators who feel our seniority is negotiable.

and,

No spin, just facts.

You used the term, "probably", a word that means you have no proof, just a feeling. That does not seem like facts to me.

A significant number of east FOs "expected" to become Captains before the "nic". Under the "nic", they will not. Ever.

In a DOH vs "nic" situation, I would think it would be easier to preserve west "expectations" than east "expectations" through conditions and restrictions simply because of the differences in the number of pilots. Not to mention the undisputed advantage to aging west pilots of having DOH for future "mergers".

Regardless of the outcome, the west pilots will get their "nic" in seven years. Why the hurry?

On a darker note, I fly with enough east FOs to know that, should the "nic" be imposed, US will definitely reside at the bottom in all stats, for years. The FOs will not leave, impacting the revenue base, jacking up costs. They have nothing to lose, knowing the value of "keeping their hands on the throttles". Yeah, mean spirited, but I don't blame them.

Consider this, deferring your extra expectations for seven years and reaping bonuses you never had before the "merger", or, getting it now and guaranteed going belly up shortly thereafter. Your choice.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I read that article that was posted on the closed thread and I have to say it really irked me.

Do the people in Arizona really believe AWA bought US Airways?

So you're irked, are you? Is this the passage about which you are irked?

"A group of US Airways pilots who came from America West are suing a new union created by the original US Airways pilots. Even though America West bought the bankrupt US Airways four years ago, taking on the older airline's name, the two groups of pilots (nicknamed "West" and "East") have never flown together. For four years they've argued over seniority, starting back when home prices were still rising and most people had never heard of Barack Obama."

Where does it say anything about the good people of Arizona? This article was written and published by CNBC, a national, well respected news organization. Maybe you should be irked even more, now that the good people of CNBC believe, and have published that "AWA bought the BANKRUPT US Airways" for all the world to see.

 

[Pacemaker]

If you wanna re-hash who-saved-who consider without the Piedmont merger in 1989 there would have been no international & no Southern Division = no more USAir.

So, it was Piedmont that saved the airline.

 

[ussnark]

Do the people in Arizona really believe AWA bought US Airways?

Valley fever.

SEC records show that HP merged with a subsidiary of US. It would like they merged with the NY Times, then told everyone they bought GE.

Perhaps they think if they say it enough, it becomes the truth.

 

[EastUS]

Okay, first it was in the 6th grade, now it is not even born, a difference of 12 years. I am not going to go thru pilot by pilot to find your instance.

On the DOH seniority list I would be placed below furloughs some of whom were probably in the 6th grade on the date I got my pilots liscensce.

My overall system seniority would be absolutely devestated. The promised C&R's, which further rob me of my job, could be changed as circumstances vary at the will of the negotiators who feel our seniority is negotiable.

No spin, just facts.

1) Fine, so long as you don't attempt further spin to try and dilute to truth of the observations.
2) You seem rather uncomfortable with that notion = a then child in sixth grade when you started learning flight, taking "seniority" from you....BUT..you seem completely untroubled with the idea of inflicting even more absurd examples of such abuse upon others?..such as having said child given "seniority" over east people that were far past just getting their "learner's permit" and were actually hired on by the airline??? "Interesting", to say the least.

3)"below furloughs"? = Which actual furloughs?>Are there any who've taken recall that would "devastate" your system seniority?

4) "The promised C&R's, which further rob me of my job, could be changed as circumstances vary at the will of the negotiators who feel our seniority is negotiable." Precisely HOW do the proposed C&R's "rob you" of ANYTHING?...other than an ability to jump east and actually rob someone of their/the east system's "job"?

 

[flybynite]

So you're irked, are you? Is this the passage about which you are irked?

"A group of US Airways pilots who came from America West are suing a new union created by the original US Airways pilots. Even though America West bought the bankrupt US Airways four years ago, taking on the older airline's name, the two groups of pilots (nicknamed "West" and "East") have never flown together. For four years they've argued over seniority, starting back when home prices were still rising and most people had never heard of Barack Obama."

Where does it say anything about the good people of Arizona? This article was written and published by CNBC, a national, well respected news organization. Maybe you should be irked even more, now that the good people of CNBC believe, and have published that "AWA bought the BANKRUPT US Airways" for all the world to see.

Well the good people of Arizona have been misinformed about the merger yet believe AWA bought US Airways. Bankrupt or not.

I have made the assumption that the reporter who wrote the article contacted HQ in Tempe for background information and that little jewel of misinformation just popped out at me.

Yes...I'm irked.

 

[EastUS]

This article was written and published by CNBC, a national, well respected news organization.

Thanks...now THAT was hilarious

 

[prechilill]

Yes...I'm irked.

Is the truth stinging a little?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Well the good people of Arizona have been misinformed about the merger yet believe AWA bought US airways. Bankrupt or not.

I have made the assumption that the reporter who wrote the article contacted HQ in Tempe for background information and that little jewel of misinformation just popped out at me.

Yes...I'm irked.

flybynite,

You and I both know that neither company acquired the other. Both companies were essentially dissolved and then gelled again to form one. Who knows where the reporter got her information. But your taking a shot at Arizona was just as off the wall and was something you yourself decided to add to the article. Yet nothing of the sort was reported.

Hence, the shot back at you. Anyhow, if you're irked today, how will you feel should usapa be found guilty in a couple of weeks of neglecting their DFR responsibilities? Maybe you ought to dust off the old thesaurus for use ahead of time. Something tells me that a simple irked won't do your emotional condition justice.

 

[luvthe9]

Where does it say anything about the good people of Arizona? This article was written and published by CNBC, a national, well respected news organization. Maybe you should be irked even more, now that the good people of CNBC believe, and have published that "AWA bought the BANKRUPT US Airways" for all the world to see.

From the SEC10Q
On September 26, 2007, as part of the integration efforts following the merger of US Airways Group and America West Holdings Corporation (“America West Holdingsâ€￾) in September 2005, America West Airlines, Inc. (“AWAâ€￾) surrendered its Federal Aviation Administration (“FAAâ€￾) operating certificate. As a result, all mainline airline operations are now being conducted under US Airways’ FAA operating certificate. In connection with the combination of all mainline airline operations under one FAA operating certificate, US Airways Group contributed one hundred percent of its equity interest in America West Holdings to US Airways. As a result, America West Holdings and its wholly owned subsidiary AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways. All off-balance sheet commitments of AWA were also transferred to US Airways. This transaction constituted a transfer of assets between entities under common control and was accounted for at historical cost.

 

[Flyz4food]

Well the good people of Arizona have been misinformed about the merger yet believe AWA bought US Airways. Bankrupt or not.

I have made the assumption that the reporter who wrote the article contacted HQ in Tempe for background information and that little jewel of misinformation just popped out at me.

Yes...I'm irked.

Imagine how irked you would have been when you were liquidated.