US Pilots Labor Thread 3/4-3/11-READ THE FIRST POST

[Waketurbulence]

The problem is, though the benefit of the Nicolau Award is surely what motivates the West Pilots, ( Judge Wake)


I think Wakes comment speaks volumes about the winfall the west got via the Nic...don't you?

try again.

That doesn't matter. What does matter is that agreements are not being honored to the detriment of the West pilots. Agreements that ucrapa is legally bound to follow as part of their Duty to Represent. That is what will be presented in court and the piles of evidence will prove it.

Slam dunk? No, but the jury that you think West pilots are afraid of will be presented the facts, not emotion pleas.

Do you think this is the first time our lawyers have faced a jury?

Quite frankly, I was more nervous about the arbitraton panel than I am with a jury that should understand basic contract law.

The name has changed, the obligations have not.

 

[souperfly]

Read it again then. For this case to be drawing the attention of labor attorneys is nothing to sneeze at.

And don't count out a summary judgement prior to 4/28.

Dream on. And for labor lawyers everywhere...yes, this is truly newsworthy. That the west has sued everyone in every direction in a litigation smart-bomb fashion is notable. With legal "experts" like the Hawaiian-shirt wearing loudmouth in the old PHX crew news
pontificating that because 6 East pilots retained recall rights to their East list after being FUR from the west list, then ALL furloughed west pilots get to abbrogate the TA and fly East metal 190's as a leap of logic?...please. It's anti-logic such as that which demonstrates the "fringe-thinking" desperation some west pilots live by. This case will be quite newsworthy, no doubt, but it may not go as you suggest...keep that in mind going forward.

 

[souperfly]

That doesn't matter. What does matter is that agreements are not being honored to the detriment of the West pilots. Agreements that ucrapa is legally bound to follow as part of their Duty to Represent. That is what will be presented in court and the piles of evidence will prove it.

Slam dunk? No, but the jury that you think West pilots are afraid of will be presented the facts, not emotion pleas.

Do you think this is the first time our lawyers have faced a jury?

Quite frankly, I was more nervous about the arbitraton panel than I am with a jury that should understand basic contract law.

The name has changed, the obligations have not.

I think the moderators have been pretty clear about this type of thing...I suggest you start calling your union by it's correct name, at least on this forum.

No, you have a spirited lawyer...it's the background regarding the evolution of USAPA and the west that brought us to today that the jury will really enjoy...not much smarty-Marty can do with that...except object about 35,000 times to suppress.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Could you cite or post the document where Freund said that the Nicolau was only a bargaining position. You know, for context.

Can you please show where I ever said that?

 

[souperfly]

"Though the will of the majority is not inherently discriminatory, see id., in this case the East Pilots are alleged to have targeted the Nicolau Award in a way that gives scant consideration to the West Pilots' interest. By casting off the brokered arrangement after its predecessor agreed to the process by which it was reached, USAPA “has renounced any good faith effort to reconcile the interestsâ€￾ of both pilot groups. "

OK, your turn now.

You are familiar with the definition of that word, right? You seem to have skimmed over that little detail, Wake didn't. You did.

 

[souperfly]

Can you please show where I ever said that?

I think that must have been directed at me, but it's been posted on this forum about 2000 times already, I'm not looking it up, he can.

It's a fact, most here know it. Someone with greater references can elaborate.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Dream on. And for labor lawyers everywhere...yes, this is truly newsworthy. That the west has sued everyone in every direction in a litigation smart-bomb fashion is notable.

Litigation IED is more like it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think that must have been directed at me, but it's been posted on this forum about 2000 times already, I'm not looking it up, he can.

It's a fact, most here know it. Someone with greater references can elaborate.

I definitely heard that, but I never said it on this forum. Just another typical scattershot tactic, like their lawsuit.

 

[souperfly]

I definitely heard that, but I never said it on this forum. Just another typical scattershot tactic, like their lawsuit.

No, I referenced it earlier today, and he is looking for the document wherein Freund said this. Many people here have it, I do not, and I'm not looking back to old threads to get it for him. Nostrodamas has it, Snooperdoggity-dog has it...and others'.

It's not conjecture, it's been hashed over a thousand times...and part of the reason the west got Harper involved, because Freunds' words were going to come back and haunt him in this case.

 

[Tiger 1050]

This will all be eventually decided in court. Until then? = It's all just issues of personal opinions.

I can agree with that.

 

[toganoflex]

You are familiar with the definition of that word, right? You seem to have skimmed over that little detail, Wake didn't. You did.

Of course that word is going to be used in everything that comes out.

Take some time and watch Law and Order. I think you'll be able to pick up a few things.

 

[souperfly]

Of course that word is going to be used in everything that comes out.

Take some time and watch Law and Order. I think you'll be able to pick up a few things.

OK...I see, you get backed up a little, and resort to going personal. Typical. Don't be mad, I quoted YOU...quoting Wake. Your problem is, you omit what the meaning of "allege" is when it's convenient for you. Yes, "allege" will fly through the courtroom like a shotgun blast. Do the right thing, stop quoting comments from the judge as he elucidates the wests' ALLEGED harm as though they are indeed fact. They ARE "allegations"....thats all.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Just another typical scattershot tactic, like their lawsuit.

Well we seem to have lodged some BB's in your butt.

 

[souperfly]

A Federal Judge disagrees with you regarding the majority/minority issue. Clearly if it were as you seem to believe the Judge would not have ruled the complaint ripe for adjudication. The DFR itself stems from the Nic thereby making the nic more than just meaningless.


Another quote from Judge Wake:

The D.C. Circuit has held that a union breaches its duty of fair representation when it “arbitrarily adopt and announce a bargaining policy on seniority merger motivated only by a desire to win the votes of a majority of the employees.†Truck Drivers & Helpers, Local Union 568 v. NLRB, 379 F.2d 137, 145 (D.C. Cir. 1967). This is so because to adopt such a policy under the circumstances “would . . . constitute a default by [the union] in its obligation to represent fairly all the employees in the unit for which it becomes the exclusive bargaining representative.†Id. Along the same lines, a union may not delegate its decision-making function to a referendum of employees “with the understanding that their actions will be motivated solely by their own personal considerations†because such a referendum violates the union’s duty to consider the views of all those it represents. Branch 6000, Nat’l Ass’n of Letter Carriers v. NLRB, 595 F.2d 808, 812 (D.C. Cir. 1979).

I can't help it...it's been said before. Lets pretend LCC buys with Virgin America next month. (pick any new entrant airline)

How do you feel about a guy with 2 years at VA who is number 10 at his company going to the top 1% of LCC? What you guys out west need is a merger exactly like this to help illustrate what the seniority list can look like without a hard and fast policy in place.

There's a reason EVERY other represented group at LCC and almost every other carrier has DOH under it's belt.

Pilots are greedy idiots at heart..and ALPA wanted to placate their dues....period.

 

[Megasnoop]

[/u]

QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Mar 5 2009, 01:57 AM)
The company is doing everything it can to delay, what you do when your going to lose.

Wow, the total lack of Eastie ability to recognize and grasp irony has always confounded me.

How are those preemptive appeals coming? Why delay? You have the perfect case...you should be sprinting into Judge wake's courtroom...except it seems it's the last place on earth you want to go. Why?

"There you go again." My post was about arbitrations. If successful, theyll will bring a lot more West pilots back than East pilots. The rules in arbitration are entirely different regarding delays. In fact, in the upcoming arb (WEST hours reduction), were finally making our presentation next week, but the companys stalling their defense until arbitrator Blochs patience runs out.

There wasnt a single East Vs West bash my post. It was entirely neutral. But again, you and your ilk got to throw an off-topic fight on an issue we should agree on:getting East AND West pilots back to work!

But to address your inaccuracies, delays are due to Wakes constantly shifting moods and the plaintiffs changing pleadings. When you change a pleading, were going to take the time to look at it before agreeing. Wakes calendar set the date, not USAPA delays. You first wanted a jury, then you didnt. We wanted a jury. The Judge ruled were entitled to one. So sorry for that "delay."

Mitch Vasin is doing the right thing. I really dont care about his motives, although saving your own job is a good one. But the more I read of your kind of off-subject attack, the more I think you would rather lose those arbs. You think it gives you more cannon fodder for your DFR. No, it keeps decent folks out of work. It only shows how much you are controlled by rage.

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