US Pilots Labor Thread 3/18-3/25-MUST READ FIRST POST

[pilotn79]

This isn't Junior High school and you aren't the school yard bully. You're not Tony Soprano either.

You're not coercing anyone.

You got the Soprano thing wrong, Scooter. My friends in junior high were rednecks.

 

[nostradamus]

Separate operations until an agreed upon contract. Law. The reality of shelf life.




Replace alpa with USAPA

 

[tazz]

The Cleary group has a list. The Section 29 list comes to mind. The Cactus 18 comes to mind. Susie comes to mind. I propose a list of my own. Lists are very effective when used properly. They can make life very difficult for pilots on that list. I've known Eastern Airlines pilots on a list that made life very difficult.

No list yet, just an idea if things keep heading a certain direction. ead between the lines...

Wow, how ominous! I'm really scared. Am I on one of your lists? Haven't you guys figured out yet that intimidation will not work? It just builds our resolve to put you in your place.

Speaking of putting usapa in its place....

History may prove that among the opinions of "legacy" carrier pilots there is a great similarity between the original usapa pilots and the ones on that Eastern Airlines list you speak of.

 

[cleardirect]

Separate operations until an agreed upon contract. Law. The reality of shelf life.




Replace alpa with USAPA

Are you sure? What law?

Did you forget that whatever ALPA said before, does not count.

 

[luvn737s]

You got the Soprano thing wrong, Scooter. My friends in junior high were rednecks.

Ironically, both the mob and rednecks respect the requirement to live up to their agreements. Tony Soprano had no one like Prater to help him renegotiate his obligation.

 

[Metroyet]

The Cleary group has a list. The Section 29 list comes to mind. The Cactus 18 comes to mind. Susie comes to mind. I propose a list of my own. Lists are very effective when used properly. They can make life very difficult for pilots on that list. I've known Eastern Airlines pilots on a list that made life very difficult.

No list yet, just an idea if things keep heading a certain direction. ead between the lines...

How Typically USAPA! Man, you guys and your collective myopia never cease to amaze me. :blink:

(hint) the thinly veiled threats actually make us smile...keep it up, in this economy a good laugh is always welcome. See you April 28th.

 

[nic4us]

The Cleary group has a list. The Section 29 list comes to mind. The Cactus 18 comes to mind. Susie comes to mind. I propose a list of my own. Lists are very effective when used properly. They can make life very difficult for pilots on that list. I've known Eastern Airlines pilots on a list that made life very difficult.

No list yet, just an idea if things keep heading a certain direction. ead between the lines...

I am confused.

You are a West pilot are you not? are you saying Cleary and others are targeting certain vocal opponents, or at least people who are making trouble for their misguided quest for DOH.

Or are you an east pilot implying some sort of blacklist toward anti-USAPA non-members out West?

I thought you to be a West pilot from your prior post, but there is obviously confusion on my part and/or other posters.

In any event, list are typically a bad idea, a karma thing in which no matter what you do someone can find a reason to put you on one. We already have a number of lists, and in the end there will be only one list that will govern, and it will be will be the Nicolau list.

 

[traderjake]

I think you are projecting your fears on others. and, "good" is such a relative term. I found a job last spring that only works ten days per month, you know your schedule three months in advance, pays as well as a ab captain, better benefits, etc. and so on. They needed someone right then and I could not accommodate them.

The jobs are out there. It just helps to look.


Yeah, then he would be out of a job. That would be real smart, now, wouldn't it? It seems your alias may contains projection, also.

You may not have noticed but economic conditions have changed since last spring.

 

[pilotn79]

We already have a number of lists, and in the end there will be only one list that will govern, and it will be will be the Nicolau list.

That is my point. There are too many lists and lot of pilots are getting sick of this tool being used as a weapon. It is a school yard or Soprano type tactic used by some to intimidate.

We don't need another list, just a remedy from the court.

 

[pilotn79]

Ironically, both the mob and rednecks respect the requirement to live up to their agreements. Tony Soprano had no one like Prater to help him renegotiate his obligation.

When I fly to Atlanta, there is a fix called ARNCO. I have family buried in a textile mill town, named after the two families that started the business, Arnold and Cole. I think of ancestors every time I am over that fix. Hard working, good honest people that could be referred to as rednecks. Does being a hardworking steelworker in PA make him a Soprano? I think not.

I think it is our roots that make us so passionate in our debates. For example, I don't agree with East US and been on the receiving end of his jabs. I do respect the fact that he keeps it here on the boards and out of the cockpit.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't know where you think you're going but when you get there you won't find a flying job as good as the one you got here...

Anyone who would contemplate replacing a flying job with another flying job is a little narrow sighted... or addicted to staying in the "Motel 8". If you loose your flying job and only work at Wendy's you immediately reduce your exposure to bedbugs by 15 night a month.

 

[usabusdriver]

1. Rice Committee - Fail
2. Denver Mec only - Fail
3. Wye River - Fail
4. ALPA East Neg Committee withdraws permanently from JNC talks at direction of MEC
5. MEC files lawsuit
6. Letter from Prater stating ALPA can only facilitate talks, no legal recourse to implement a merged agreement nor any time line what-so-ever.

I think that will do.

Freighterguy,

Concerning any logjam only number 4 on your list is really an impediment. The process of deriving a seniority list through ALPA policy was completed, there was no logjam in creating an integrated seniority list. Any logjam would arise in the process of implementing the combined list, the Nicolau Award, through a joint contract under ALPA because of dual ratification. So the problem is how the USAPA process would move forward, alleviating the logjam that underpants referenced, towards achieving a joint contract not an integrated seniority list, and that is what I was referring to.

 

[luvn737s]

I think the courts will have to decide if there truly is "dual ratification".

 

[Ardenian]

I don't know where you think you're going but when you get there you won't find a flying job as good as the one you got here.

tout à fait le contraire, mon ami!

There are many ex-us guys out there flying for a lot more than our esteemed employer pays its Captains.

The first one who comes to mind has the most common story.

The decision to leave is always difficult; leaving the security of knowing where you are working the next morning for the uncertainty of advancing on your own merit and sweat.

Then, you have to re-invent yourself. Airline pilots can only fly airliners. Not much market there...

This gent loved to fly, so he went to work as a charter pilot. His employer quickly realized he was more than the average pilot, and he quickly rose to a management position. He interviewed with several Fortune 100 companies, but no one really wanted a re-tread airline pilot.

He wasn't there yet.

After flying charter and working in management for a few years, something happened. He didn't even realize it, but he was no longer just an airline pilot.

He had created a network and a history in corporate aviation, and when he interviewed for a Fortune 50 company, his "new" persona, history, and reputation landed him the job.

He now flies a G450 and G550, making more than the guys in the left seat of a Cactus A330. He stays in the best hotels, has an unlimited expense account, has a company-funded retirement which makes the meager DC plan pale in comparison, and has earned the respect and admiration of his colleagues and the management of this large company.

However, he can no longer pick up chicks at a cocktail party by saying, "Why, yes! I AM an airlne pilot..."

 

[Ardenian]

Anyone who would contemplate replacing a flying job with another flying job is a little narrow sighted... or addicted to staying in the "Motel 8".

This may be a generally good point, but good flying jobs are out there.

The good ones do not go to the "Four-striped Airline Pilot-God."

The good ones go to the guy who has proven his worth to an entirely different community.

This takes time. Not as much as you think, but there is an investment which must be made.