US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

A320 Driver,
What will the jury think when they hear Sully and Skiles story from the witness stand? It will be interesting having a jury. After all, the majority of juries are composed of retirees and middle-aged worker bees. I am sure many of them put time in at some company somewhere and probably wouldn't like to be displaced by junior colleagues.

Later,
Eye

I really doubt that Sully or Skiles will be anywhere near the witness stand. Could you give us a legal reason why? What do either of them know about the formation or running of usapa? This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Besides men of integrity would not let themselves be used as props in some emotional show.

 

[N924PS]

Yes, but this jury gets to second-guess Nicolau and decide the old man was indeed bonkers.

If you recall, after Arbitrator Nicolau was agreed upon by both East and West, ALPA East placed his previous arbitration decisions for all to see on it's website. Knowing his previous methodology, the East stood by it's DOH stance, even when presented with an 11th hour option by Nicolau to modify that position.

Nicolau, of course was not bonkers, but followed what he believed to be ALPA merger policy and a sense of fairness from previous decisions rendered. While "grassy knoll" theorists like Nostro believe his decision was externally influenced, the East got pretty much what could be expected from Nicolau under the scenario he had before him to arbitrate.

 

[nostradamus]

Tiger 1050, fodase, electricjet98, lynyrdskynyrd, cactusboy53, EyeInTheSky, nic4us, LOA93,toganoflex


Observe the confident west pilots above hovering around the board (less Eye) claiming they are not concerned, slam dunk, you east fools they say. It reminds me of a bunch of vultures hanging around to devour a kill that they had no part in its capture, but they are ready to consume the meat.

Pathetic cro magnon ritual, extinction will be the result of these fools that only can devour the scraps of those who reign in the jungle.

It is hard to sleep when your peers are whistling in the dark, is it not?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Tiger 1050, fodase, electricjet98, lynyrdskynyrd, cactusboy53, EyeInTheSky, nic4us, LOA93


Observe the confident west pilots above hovering around the board (less Eye) claiming they are not concerned, slam dunk, you east fools they say. It reminds me of a bunch of vultures hanging around to devour a kill they had no part in its capture, but they are ready to consume the meat.

Pathetic cro magnon ritual, extinction will be the result of these fools that only can devour the scraps of those who reign in the jungle.

It is hard to sleep when your peers are whistling in the dark, is it not.

What no link to some obscure, irrelevant notion or comment?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Oh we are all losing in our own way, and I don't think either side will have a slam dunk. However, I am very hopeful that a federal judge and jury will at least hold the east somewhat accountable for its thugish actions through usapa.

Here is what I really think. The east likely will not end up with a green light for its dream list. Nor will the judge and jury just wave a wand and make it all better for the west.

I find it fascinating that many east posters here still take the propaganda of the ministry to heart despite the disconnect that has been quite obvious for a long while now. What was that about whistling? Come on Nos, don't let me down, where's that link to the original rico complaint?

 

[nostradamus]

Come on Nos, don't let me down, where's that link to the original rico complaint?

It is located in the only place that really matters now, in exhibit r papers for the consideration of the jury.

Nice attempt at baiting though.

 

[Waketurbulence]

.

 

[Waketurbulence]

hp fa

Just curious, but what do you think about the jury being from AZ and the possiblity that they may be biased in favor of the plaintiffs.

IOW, the plaintiffs are employees of the former hometown airline. They have family ties, community ties, etc.

Is it presumptuous or paranoid on my part to assume that a tainted jury pool may exist - and thereby serve as grounds for an appeal?

So now, instead of it being ALPA's fault or Nicalau's fault or the Wests' fault, it's going to be the fault of a "biased" jury from Arizona. YHGTBSM! That would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic....

 

[ClueByFour]

It is located in the only place that really matters now, in exhibit r papers for the consideration of the jury.

Nice attempt at baiting though.

The jury won't see it.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It is located in the only place that really matters now, in exhibit r papers for the consideration of the jury.

Nice attempt at baiting though.

Shoot, I bet if I had kept my keyboard shut, you'd have drug it out like you usually do when there is a lack of facts at the moment and a little bluster is needed. I give you credit for restraint. Jenius with a capital J move on usapas part in exhibit r. Yeah, lets call attention to one of our more brilliant failures, thats the way to go.

 

[ClueByFour]

A320 Driver,
What will the jury think when they hear Sully and Skiles story from the witness stand?

The jury won't hear that, either. Because the next question and/or people on the witness stand will involve the surviving pilots of the previous two attempts to land "on NYC waterways" from the East.

 

[cleardirect]

Tiger 1050, fodase, electricjet98, lynyrdskynyrd, cactusboy53, EyeInTheSky, nic4us, LOA93,toganoflex


Observe the confident west pilots above hovering around the board (less Eye) claiming they are not concerned, slam dunk, you east fools they say. It reminds me of a bunch of vultures hanging around to devour a kill that they had no part in its capture, but they are ready to consume the meat.

So you are admitting that USAPA has been killed and ready to be eaten. Finally you are beginning to see reality. By the way if the west did not kill USAPA who did? Was it suicide?

Pathetic cro magnon ritual, extinction will be the result of these fools that only can devour the scraps of those who reign in the jungle.

This one really makes me laugh. Do you believe that you, the east, old bankrupt US Airways or USAPA reigned in any jungle?

It is hard to sleep when your peers are whistling in the dark, is it not?

I sleep very well thank you. What is the tune you are whistling?


ps You are watching to much animal planet.

 

[Megasnoop]

I really doubt that Sully or Skiles will be anywhere near the witness stand. Could you give us a legal reason why? What do either of them know about the formation or running of usapa? This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Besides men of integrity would not let themselves be used as props in some emotional show.

So if either testifies, they have no integrity? How about testifying about being denid a jumpseat to or from work, being flipped off, all the other dirty tricks effecting all members in good standing? Sully commutes out of the Bay area, thats mostly west metal.

Dont know about Sully, but Skiles? Hes plunged right into USAPA. Good for him.

Government Affairs Committee Update
March 11, 2009

Expanded Testimony of Jeffrey Skiles
Before the House Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Aviation
Hearing on U.S. Airways Flight 1549
February 24, 2009
Chairman Oberstar, Chairman Costello and members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee and Aviation Sub-Committee, I am honored and grateful...........

Many lessons can be learned from an in-depth study of the Flight 1549 incident. The most basic of which would be the importance of attracting and retaining experienced flight crews. While certainly improvements can be made in the areas of certification and regulation, the human element will never be able to be discounted. Orville and Wilbur Wright needed to pilot the very first airplane, and certainly aircraft will need pilots for time to come. By ensuring that trained, skilled, professionals are present in every cockpit, we can ensure the safety of the traveling public for many years.

Arnie Gentile, Chairman

Jeff Skiles, Vice Chairman

Contact us by email at [email protected].

This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Think so? Good luck.
Snooper

 

[A320 Driver]

A320 Driver,
What will the jury think when they hear Sully and Skiles story from the witness stand? It will be interesting having a jury. After all, the majority of juries are composed of retirees and middle-aged worker bees. I am sure many of them put time in at some company somewhere and probably wouldn't like to be displaced by junior colleagues.

Later,
Eye

I agree. A jury can be a funny thing. Often, they don't care as much about procedure than how they might feel in the same situation. That is how I've seen it when I've served on jury duty. My point is, this is not a West slam/dunk. You NEVER know how they will react, but often they go by their own life experiences.

Later...

A320 Driver B)

 

[Megasnoop]

On the issue of LOA 93 and snap backs, I think the phrase snap back is a bad one. I also have a suggestion.

Let's scrap the idea of a "clean slate" contract and focus instead on Dec 31 of this year - when LOA 93 EXPIRES. With the expiration of LOA 93 the controlling document is Restructuring #1. The provisions, pay rates and benefits within that document are quite acceptable to me in many ways.

Piedmont, I agree with your direction, I dont like the phrase "snap back" either. Although to be accurate, LOA 93 doesnt "expire." It is "amendable." BUT, the wage give-backs and freezes DO expire. Of course Parker doesnt agree, but he wasnt involved.


CHARLOTTE DOMICILE UPDATE
March 8, 2009

LOA 93 Expiration

We have been getting a lot of calls regarding the language in LOA 93. The following is the exact language in the pay provisions of this agreement.

The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as follows:

1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18%.
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section 3(F) and Section 18©, by 18% for transoceanic trips; eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.

Even a casual reading of the language shows there is no question that the language in LOA 93 regarding pay rates and pay freezes expire on December 31, 2009. We see that when the pay freeze expires on 12/31/09, we don’t just return back to the 18% reduction, but rather we return through the compensation section of LOA 84 back to the pay rates established in Restructuring Agreement #1 which we estimate at the following.

January 1, 2010 pay rates per Restructuring Agreement:

12th year Capt Rate
A330--------$222.26
Group 1----$201.35
Group 2----$174.85

12th year F/O rate
A330------$152.22
Group 1---$137.52
Group 2---$119.42

As you can read the above contract language this is not a snapback provision, nor is this portion of LOA 93 amendable, it is an expiration date that is clearly stated in the contract language, with defined beginning and ending dates of 05/01/04 through 12/31/09. The following definition is from Webster’s:

Main Entry: expiration date

Function: noun

Date: circa 1946

1: the date after which something (as a credit card) is no longer in effect

How much clearer can it be?

We are getting nowhere negotiating a brand new contract, lets focus on simply returning to a pre bankruptcy collective bargaining agreement - which aleady existed with language already in place.

AGREED! Absent Section 6, the company has no reason to do anything but show up. In these financil bad times, who needs a new contract? Especially with the slim chance to NIC will be controlling. The A330 FO rate ($152.22) works for me.
Snooper