US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

As you may or may not be able to see, the only reason a jury trial was granted was because of our own doing - the claim of compensatory damages.

Greed often ill seves those most poseessed...........Just an observation.

 

[toganoflex]

...that places no instant swarm of voracious locusts into the migratory west-east stream,

And even better, it keeps the easties that were hoping to move where they were going to retire back east where they belong.

And those west coast commuters are going to have to keep commuting to the east for a long time.

I guess we both win!

 

[EastUS]

I really doubt that Sully or Skiles will be anywhere near the witness stand. Could you give us a legal reason why? What do either of them know about the formation or running of usapa? This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Besides men of integrity would not let themselves be used as props in some emotional show.

Ah!...I see 🙄 So..should either of these gentlemen offer testimony at any level, and by all sacred west fantasies as to how much "INTEGRITY MATTERS"..they'd then have none? In other words = anyone who doesn't buy the notion that your 11 years should trump 21+ out east has no "Integrity", regardless of their actual deeds or accomplishments? I have no further questions, nor, I'd think, should any reasonable person. A slightly expanded world view's gently suggested here Clear.....

 

[toganoflex]

Greed often ill seves those most poseessed...........Just an observation.

And you guys are a classic example of that.

 

[EastUS]

And you guys are a classic example of that.

No doubt. I've but two simple questions that should serve to register the appropriate levels on any greed index = How many years do you have at AWA?..and exactly how many years of an east "fellow pilot's" working life do you fantasize that yours are truly and "honorably" "worth"?. Is it merely one of yours for two of theirs?..or is it even more? 🙄 Exactly how very much more precious are your time and efforts than those of any other "fellow pilots"???

You would do well to avoid even the mention of greed..........

 

[A320 Driver]

Don't let these east guys fool you, the majority of east membership signed an e-petition demanding doh or nothing, when the east merger committee told them that doh wasn't feasible, the reps threatened to fire them if they asked for anything less. Same thing happened back in 2000 when they were suppose to merge with ual. So no the east membership is not innocent, they in fact have always been this way, ual pilots know it and awa pilots are living it.

I respectfully disagree. While I don't have the numbers to back it up, I don't believe it was a majority that signed any petition. Can't say for sure I ever even saw one.

A320 Driver B)

 

[Pacemaker]

I respectfully disagree. While I don't have the numbers to back it up, I don't believe it was a majority that signed any petition. Can't say for sure I ever even saw one.

A320 Driver B)

I was there; don't remember any "petition".

I'll agree that a great many US Airways pilots were drooling at the prospect of a DOH UAL merge, which obviously was not going to happen.

 

[cubfan]

Yes that was the original C&BL that was written and approved by an all east board. No west input. The reason that usapa had to change their C&BL was because there was no legal way to join.

You just admitted that usapa caused a DFR. This is the language. Not edited, there is no more. People can read it for themselves. You say that if someone wanted to become a member they could. Could you point out the legal process for a west pilot to join? Not some made up off book deal. But usapa following the constitution that they wrote. How were west members approved?

You see unions have a legal responsibility to represent. Members of the class do not have a responsibility to join, or to make an effort to contact the union. They do not have to send a rep in order to get those benefits.

April 1st an arbitrator will hear this case. Then determine if the west could or could not join.

Clear,

Thanks for the response, first off I don't think I admitted there was a DFR. What I said in my example was, had the union acted that way, (knowing there was no domicle or rep therefore no one could join) then that action would be grounds or a DFR. Unless my memory failed me, the c&bl were written before the election results were final. It was only after the election and some time before any one discovered the loophole. When the letters were written for non payment, it was then that the loophole was used as defense, and AL H. upheld it. At that time was when people who didn't want to pay spoke up. No one came forward and said, Hey I want to join, but I can't. There fore my belief that it was used soley for non payment/membership.

 

[pilotn79]

Greed often ill seves those most poseessed...........Just an observation.

That is a very astute observation from one who likes to pontificate. That is the very reason USAPA will soon be in court

 

[toganoflex]

Ah!...I see 🙄 So..should either of these gentlemen offer testimony at any level, and by all sacred west fantasies as to how much "INTEGRITY MATTERS"..they'd then have none? In other words = anyone who doesn't buy the notion that your 11 years should trimp 21+ out east has no "Integrity", regardless of their actual deeds or accomplishments? I have no further questions, nor, I'd think, should any reasonable person. A slightly expanded world view's gently suggested here Clear.....

Why would they testify?

The Nic is not on trial here.

USAPA is for their incompetence in running a union.

 

[toganoflex]

I was there; don't remember any "petition".

I'll agree that a great many US Airways pilots were drooling at the prospect of a DOH UAL merge, which obviously was not going to happen.

Here's the preamble to the east website that is no longer around:


"By signing this petition I am directing the AAA MEC Chairmen,MEC membership and Merger Committee Members to accept nothing less than Date of Hire during any and all discussions relating in any way to the merger between US Airways (AAA) and America West (AWA). The purpose of this petition is to demand the AAA MEC proceed toward an agreement between the Master Executive Councils of US Airways and America West that INCLUDES NOTHING LESS than Date of Hire. I consider anything other than Date of Hire to be unfair, unjust and a failure of the MEC in their duty to fairly represent the membership."

 

[fodase]

don't bother the east with facts, they can't comprehend them.

 

[cleardirect]

Ah!...I see 🙄 So..should either of these gentlemen offer testimony at any level, and by all sacred west fantasies as to how much "INTEGRITY MATTERS"..they'd then have none? In other words = anyone who doesn't buy the notion that your 11 years should trimp 21+ out east has no "Integrity", regardless of their actual deeds or accomplishments? I have no further questions, nor, I'd think, should any reasonable person. A slightly expanded world view's gently suggested here Clear.....

I really doubt that Sully or Skiles will be anywhere near the witness stand. Could you give us a legal reason why? What do either of them know about the formation or running of usapa? This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Besides men of integrity would not let themselves be used as props in some emotional show.

Perhaps a closer reading of my post. You fail to offer any legal reason why either gentleman would be on the stand. They were not leaders of USAPA at the time of the suit. Neither was in charge. Other then their opinion about what USAPA has or has not done. What information are they going to offer to a jury?

The subject is what USAPA did, not what the Nicolau says. Not how it might effect a single person on that list. So my time or your time at this airline is irrelevant to this case.

You write “regardless of their actual deeds or accomplishments?â€￾ What does that have to do with this case?

Please read carefully. If they allow themselves to be used as emotional props then no. They do not have any integrity. If they have something meaningful to add to the legal proceedings then by all means put them on the stand. Yes they will have integrity. But first how about a reason other then emotional appeal to the jury why they would testify and to what would the testify to?

USAPA may ask them to take the stand. But going back to my statement. Those two men might not allow USAPA to use them in that manor. That would be the integrity part.

 

[tazz]

Where does it really "say" that, as you contend?

ALPA had a lot of policies with which I did not agree, and I did not support. But membership in a union does not necessarily mean you support each and every policy and rule. No organization....and I mean NO organization...ever works that way.

I assume you are a citizen of the United States. Do you support EVERY law on the books without question or concern? Should you give up your citizenship if you disagree with a particular law?

Talk to Brice....he figured it out.

NYC, I understand your argument, however, DOH is the ONE thing that totally undermines the west. At one time I may have agreed with everything the Nazi Party was doing EXCEPT the extermination of the Jewish population. Therefore, I would NEVER have joined the Nazi Party. I would rather die than be known as a member. Note any parrallels here?

The very action of joining your "union" would be demonstrating support for DOH, whether one writes or verbally states opposition.

 

[toganoflex]

No doubt. I've but two simple questions that should serve to register the appropriate levels on any greed index = How many years do you have at AWA?..and exactly how many years of an east "fellow pilot's" working life do you fantasize that yours are truly and "honorably" "worth"?. Is it merely one of yours for two of theirs?..or is it even more? 🙄 Exactly how very much more precious are your time and efforts than those of any other "fellow pilots"???

You would do well to avoid even the mention of greed..........

You're two simple questions have no relevancy.

Your years came at US Airways, mine at AWA so its apples and oranges.

A fair list respects the relative seniority of both sides and that's exactly what Nicolau did.

I really don't care if you had 50 years there. You're airline was bought out and merged with my airline and both sides had to give something up.