US Pilots Labor Discussion

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end_of_alpa said:
Just the facts.
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I am somewhat unfamiliar with James Javurek. While I see that he is also a pilot for the new US Airways, I fail to see exactly why his manifesto is to be considered in our discussion.

I used a very small portion from Bob Mann's testimony in the arbitration between AWA and US Air. Both legal teams agreed that Mr. Mann should be considered an expert in the field of airlines & airline finances. If you read the entire proceedings you will find other "experts" that corroborate Mr. Mann's findings.

While Mr. Javurek's manifesto has some interesting points, one thing that I think Mr. Javurek failed to address the fact that if both parties agree to mediation and arbitration, the process is final and binding.

Mr. Nicolau (along with the two pilot neutrals) end up deciding the final seniority list. If you read the final award, you can in fact understand the logic that was used in the assembly of the list.

Whether you agree, agree a little, disagree and just scream blood murder....does not change the FACT that the proceedings are complete.
 
cactusboy53 said:
I'm counting on USAPA (in its present form) imploding. I'm counting on Mike Cleary sending more threatening communications to the CEO and BOD of LCC (and to continue to make an fool of himself). I'm counting on 700-1000 of my new best friends to figure out the sham that has been sold as "The Gold Standard" will not happen. I'm counting on Parker eventually using the Nicolau (either forced by the courts or some other outside influence). I'm counting on the AWA pilot group standing, not to be bullied by the school yard thugs that think might makes right. I'm counting on the integrity of the the Leonidas group to continue to educate those that are open to logical discussion. I'm counting on industry average pay for the time being to include 100% pay for mechanicals, dead heads, cancellations and A-sections. I'm counting on a 3.5 weeks of paid vacation (and ultimately 4 weeks). I'm counting on a select few of you to continue to bang your head against the wall when you finally figure out the the Nicolau award is FINAL and BINDING (even if you voted in the Girl Scouts of America as your new CBA).

Still counting..... :p.........why don't you sit back and let us show you how it's going to happen....
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This video reminds us in the EAST what would happen as we sit back and let you show us, ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI4d5AeAi7g
 
cactusboy53 said:
I am somewhat unfamiliar with James Javurek. While I see that he is also a pilot for the new US Airways, I fail to see exactly why his manifesto is to be considered in our discussion.

I used a very small portion from Bob Mann's testimony in the arbitration between AWA and US Air. Both legal teams agreed that Mr. Mann should be considered an expert in the field of airlines & airline finances. If you read the entire proceedings you will find other "experts" that corroborate Mr. Mann's findings.

While Mr. Javurek's manifesto has some interesting points, one thing that I think Mr. Javurek failed to address the fact that if both parties agree to mediation and arbitration, the process is final and binding.

Mr. Nicolau (along with the two pilot neutrals) end up deciding the final seniority list. If you read the final award, you can in fact understand the logic that was used in the assembly of the list.

Whether you agree, agree a little, disagree and just scream blood murder....does not change the FACT that the proceedings are complete.
Click to expand...

No vote....no seniority list. Goodbye.
 
end_of_alpa said:
Just the facts.
Click to expand...
The important facts:

Parker: "The facts are as follows: US Airways, without the merger would have liquidated, I feel 99% certain of that"

Parker: "What I know for certain, because I was running the place, is that we didn't have the money to make it through the winter of 2005-2006. We had insufficient funds to make it through. We could have raised more funds... and made it through...and I'm not saying we wouldn't of..."

Parker: "My strong belief and it's not as high as 99% but is in the high 80's is that we'd be in bankruptcy now. We wouldn't have liquidated, we'd be in bankruptcy now."

Jim
 
CallawayGolf said:
Leverage comes from unity and resolve. USAPA has plenty of resolve on opposing the NIC but that’s about it. If you want leverage, here’s my plan of attack. . .

The first order of business would be to invite three highly respected labor law firms to come in and give a full evaluation of the Addington, DJ, and Section 22 matter that has created the quagmire and disunity of east & west groups. This entire dialog needs to be unredacted and made available to the east/west membership so that they can hear the expert opinions on the course Bradford, $eham and Cleary have been set upon since the inception of USAPA. If two out of three of these respected legal firms say the current course of avoiding the NIC is viable and has at least a 50/50 chance of success, then put a simple poll/vote out to the MIGS asking if USAPA should accept the NIC for section 22 in order to accelerate JCBA negotiations. If the MIGS prefer to stay on the non timeline course of waiting for the courts to decide then at least they will know that the course is viable and that they have majority support for the course of action.

On the other hand, if two or all three of the legal opinions come back with a negative opinion of USAPA’s section 22 approach, then SSMP ought to be released immediately and replaced with another entity that can offer sound legal counsel on the matter. USAPA should then notify all pilots that based on the best legal counsel available that the NIC must be the seniority list in the JCBA and then close out that section with Management. Some/many on the east may not like the NIC being in the contract, but at least they will know the truth going forward, namely that there is and never was any other legitimate option for the combined seniority list.

Once that section is closed it is the duty and the responsibility of the CBA to create unity within their ranks so as to negotiate with Management. USAPA is compelled by law seek contractual agreements for their membership via the JCBA negotiations. With the courts out of the process, neither USAPA or Management can blame some outside factor as the cause for a delay. IMO this will move quickly towards discussing and resolving the true financial sections that need to be agreed upon.

You may not like it, but until and unless USAPA accepts the NIC for section 22, they will never be taken seriously at the negotiating table. It is not a good-faith negotiation to propose a list that unlawfully replaces a list resulting from binding arbitration (DFR). Management knows this and that is clearly why they don’t even discuss USAPA’s DOH proposals. Management’s job is to get them most out of the CBA while minimizing the financial impact to the organization. On the other hand, USAPA’s job is to get the most out of Management financially while giving up the least in other areas of the contract. This give and take is and will go nowhere so long as USAPA ignores the NIC Award. Of course it’s my opinion that USAPA doesn’t want a JCBA or expect to be taken seriously in negotiations. They are fulfilling their singular purpose of delaying the JCBA so as to delay the implementation of the NIC and put on a show for the members to convince them that USAPA and actually fulfill its obligations. What the pilots need more than anything else is a good dose of scared straight honesty from those who are being paid to represent them. Therefore, I conclude that all of this delay and mess lies at the feet of USAPA leadership, not Management’s. Just like the west cannot do anything to slow down or speed up the JCBA process, so also Management cannot and probably shouldn’t do anything to speed up or slow down the negotiating process so long as USAPA ignores its duty to fairly represent the west pilots.
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A level of cooperation is necessary for good faith negotiations. I see no action that suggests good faith on the part of the company. The Kirby is not serious relative to other carriers our size. You have written many words and put forward scenarios which may have merit but at this point all I know factually is USAPA is free to negotiate. The outcome of those negotiations if there ever is one will determine if a DFR is ripe. Having seen the courts in action speculating is really a sure way to be disappointed at some point. Its apparent to me the company cares more about money than section 22. You may think section 22 is genuine obstacle I think its an opportunity to stall and delay. Parker cares when opportunity intersects a good deal. I make judgements on what they do. I could care less what they say.
 
cactusboy53 said:
Well, that's only ONE of you. Let's get a contract with the Nicolau and put it to a vote. With Delta wages I bet it would pass by at least 60%.
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Anything else you want in the contract beside the Nic. Like wages, benefits, retirement and health? Should we ask doug first or should we just put it up for a vote.

There is a reason why you were hired by america west airlines, you could not qualify for any reputable airline. Your are an ignorant person, it is a common thread of the west pilots.

id thieves.
 
sumadarson said:
Anything else you want in the contract beside the Nic. Like wages, benefits, retirement and health? Should we ask doug first or should we just put it up for a vote.

There is a reason why you were hired by america west airlines, you could not qualify for any reputable airline. Your are an ignorant person, it is a common thread of the west pilots.

id thieves.
Click to expand...

If you took the time to read the post, I said DELTA WAGES. Looking back in our history you can see that the JNC already had over 25 sections of a completed TA done. This new TA was a HUGE improvement to LOA 93 and a modest improvement to C2004.

If you would put that document up with Delta wages and the Nicolau as the seniority list, it would pass by AT LEAST 60%.

The rest of your remarks simply make you a sour and angry person. Oh, BTW......how's that FBI investigation going? I hear that they play rock/paper/scissors @ the FBI office to see who has to answer the phone when the caller ID says USAPA........ :D.
 
MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
This video reminds us in the EAST what would happen as we sit back and let you show us, ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI4d5AeAi7g
Click to expand...

Ah a little levity in our daily scwable. Was the helicopter the best you could do since there were no videos of AWA crashes?

We at AWA had been blessed with a very good safety record and stellar training department.
 
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