US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

or about a month before since HP was making AAA payrolls back then to prop them up until the "merger" was completed.

Really!!! Proof, please?

I never once got a paycheck that said American West Airlines on it!

Must have gotten lost in the mail. I will have to call payroll and get them reissued.

 

[nycbusdriver]

HP acquired US through a reverse acquisition where HP was the acquiring business entity but the US name and operating certificate would be the go-forward business name owned by an entirely different group of stakeholders than they were previously. The HP stockholders approved the acquitison which gave them new LCC stock that was also issued to the various big money investors who also funded the transaction. HP didn't have the cash to buy up all of the debt of US, but they did have the management team able to give the outside investors confidence in their capital investments.

HP didn't have the cash to buy anything at all. According to Parker, HP had the cash to keep itself afloat maybe for another 6 months. HP didn't buy anything in this merger. The stockholders of LCC bought both carriers.

 

[CallawayGolf]

So, was it an acquisition or a merger? They don't mean the same thing. What do the papers say???

Driver B)

The papers use the politically correct term of merger. The SEC filings use the legally correct term of reverse acquisition.

 

[cleardirect]

How much cash did HP have?

Bruce Lakefield was the cash/confidence man, not Parker/Kirby.........

If Lakefield was the cash/confidence man why is Parker running the company?

If I were an investor, putting my money on a guy, I would want that guy running the company. You think maybe it was Parker they were putting their money on not Lakefield. The same lakefield that had a company on the verge of liquidation with no plan to exit BK.

Could it be that the crew room rumors are not true?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Really!!! Proof, please?

I never once got a paycheck that said American West Airlines on it!

Must have gotten lost in the mail. I will have to call payroll and get them reissued.

As I recall Parker made this statement in a employee meeting back in 2005 or so. I'm sure it is in the SEC filings, but I'm on the road and my iPad so I'm not able give you your proof at this time. It was pretty common knowledge at the time though.

 

[CallawayGolf]

The financial status of both companies was also well known to George Nicolau who referenced the health and outlook for both pilot groups in his decision. The east pilots made out exceedingly well under the arbitration award and were given a very fair seniority system despite working for a company that was pinned against the ropes with a knockout blow ready to take them out when the "merger" came along to provide a new hope for their paychecks and "career expectations".

 

[767jetz]

Has Management already agreed to "a change in work rules on the CO side to UA standards"?

No. When a joint contract is in place and the SLI is complete then the company can run the airline as one. The Transition Agreement prohibits the company from benefiting from any synergies until the JCBA and SLI are complete. If they want their money they need to give us ours first. That's the leverage we have. Negotiations under the NMB will commence soon. The assumption is that scope will improve on CO's current scope, and work rules will improve on UA's We certainly are not going backward on our work rules. UA pilots already consider our current work rules, which are better than CO's, to be inadequate and agreed to under bankruptcy. Even though CO has higher pay rates, UA's contract is actually more expensive per pilot than CO's due to work rules and other details.

Much is yet to be seen, but the progress so far, while slow and methodical, seem to be producing results.

 

[767jetz]

Sounds like you must have a TA over there at UAL/CAL for vote. Good thing you have it all sewn up now, you will be immune from the rising oil prices........Hey good for you Jetz

As I just stated, there is still much to be seen. But ALPA's investment bankers are carefully sorting through the company information. I don't think many of you realize how much money is on the table in synergies alone. DL ALPA went after 1/2 of the claimed synergies, knowing that they were underestimated by management. Since signing their contract management has indeed increased their estimates, regardless of current oil prices. They are now coming up on another contract cycle and looking for another bite of the apple. UA ALPA is targeting 1/2 as well. Syergies have been conservatively estimated greater than DL's. I'll give you a hint. The number has a "2" and a "Billion" in it! That's per year.

Nothing is sewn up. But rising oil prices are not going to tank the progress. UA's new management has already committed to creating a business plan that will weather the fluctuations of the oil market. If you price your product according to cost and revenue, then oil is not an issue. Every airline, through capacity discipline and fare increases has shown a willingness to avoid the pitfall of the past as much as possible.

 

[Barrister]

FYI, the merger committee and the MEC have been very clear from the start that while the argument will be made to protect the furloughees as much as possible, historically arbitrators do not give heavy consideration to furloughed pilots. Expectations are being managed realistically, with history and precedent as our guide.

Additionally, with a change in work rules on the CO side to UA standards, plus any improvements in the joint contract, there will be a shortage of around 800 positions throughout the system, creating that much movement for everyone over night and bringing our furloughs back years before they would have absent the merger. That is a huge benefit for them regardless of how SLI works out.

Also there is a misconception that slotting looks at your individual seat position. It does not. It looks at the seat position of your group within a range of seniority numbers (aka NW/DL), regardless of the position you bid. It also looks at the number of positions in a category and class for each side. Therefore a very senior 767 f/o who could hold 767 captain but bids f/o for quality of life will still end up in the seniority range as his peers who are 767 captains, wherever that might be. That's what they mean by merging numbers and not positions. Same goes for those on military or personal leave. It does not affect where they end up on a final list. It is impossible for a person on a leave of absence to end up junior to someone on his own respective list prior to the SLI.

Saying otherwise demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of the process.

And more clarification of the posted numbers. UA furloughed about 1000 ACTIVE pilots when they parked the 737 fleet. They had to go 1417 deep to get 1000 flying pilots off the list due to junior pilots on leaves, military or otherwise. Many took voluntary furloughs to go on to other professions and better deals while keeping their seniority number. They may or may not come back. But there were around 400 pilots already not flying when the furloughs happened.

protect a furloughee as much as possible???????
YOU SIR ARE THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE EVER TO POST ON THESE BOARDS
You make boeing boy look like a supporter. Please leave here and never come back!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

protect a furloughee as much as possible???????
YOU SIR ARE THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE EVER TO POST ON THESE BOARDS
You make boeing boy look like a supporter. Please leave here and never come back!!

NICDOA
NPJB

La, la, la. I can't hear you.

You guys kill me. If they don't agree with you than they should just go away. Boys and girls there are a lot of people that don't agree with you. You guys just don't want to listen.

 

[nic4us]

I believe MDA didn't meet the test for separate operating certificate per the FAA, hence mainline, another failed management attempt to screw pilots.

OK, here we go again with the fictitious 85% number.......1531 AWA Pilots of 1893 were hired after Joe Monda. That's just over 80% below Monda, but MIXED with other AAA Pilots whose DOH spans Monda to 8/30/2004. The "certified list" as you state is in dispute also. Now that ALPA has changed it's merger policy to include LOS, we will see how the UAL Furloughed Pilots make out in their merger with CAL..........Again, your beloved ALPA is NOT helping your cause by changing what you consider the "Gold Standard" of Merger Policies.....

So your arguement is that since furloughed east pilots are mixed with the 85% of the West pilots that are stapled below Monda, that it is not a true stapling?

Also, it is not my beloved ALPA. Frankly I am relatively pleased you threw ALPA to the curb. If usapa was interested in making things right and not just screwing West pilots, we would have the best thing going. Unfortunately, the number one priority, founding principle, and underlying purpose of usapa is to facilitate the reneging of a binding arbitration argeement the West had with the east. A very untenable position. So, until usapa either gets some Nic religion, or gets itself tossed to the curb, we are all stuck in the status quo.

 

[700UW]

Seabury and Associates hired by US Airways, raised the money to fund the merger.

US was using the ATSB loan and money from GE and Airbus to make payroll.

There was no cash infusion from HP to US.

The money from the merger came from Air Wisconsin, Republic, Airbus, GECAS, Air Canada and a few other institutional investors.

Bruce Lakefield hired John Luth from Seabury and he raised the money for the merger, so the money was raised by US Airways, not HP.

 

[nic4us]

The stockholders of LCC bought both carriers.

Kinda, but not quite.

Oh, and the stockholders of AWA owned the largest single portion of LCC at the time of the merger, I believe it was in the 43% of the outstanding stock range, and would have been over 50%. However, last minute additions to the Barbell funds lowered the AWA %. Also, some last minute deal got the AAA stockholders something like an 8% stake.

 

[700UW]

Luth went after the companies that had something to gain from an investment in US Airways and America West. Aircraft maker Airbus agreed to provide $250 million in exchange for US Airways' pledge to buy dozens of A320 jets in the future. Regional commuter carrier Air Wisconsin Airlines made a $125 million investment in exchange for a jet services partnership. The Appleton, Wis.-based airline will fly for the merged carrier on a contract basis.

Credit card companies may provide $300 million in order to reach new customers. And once-bankrupt Air Canada offered $75 million, good for a 7 percent stake in the new company, in exchange for the rights to bid on the maintenance contract for the new carrier's fleet of 361 jets.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05142/508153.stm#ixzz1CvkinSJF

 

[nic4us]

Seabury and Associates hired by US Airways, raised the money to fund the merger.

US was using the ATSB loan and money from GE and Airbus to make payroll.

There was no cash infusion from HP to US.

The money from the merger came from Air Wisconsin, Republic, Airbus, GECAS, Air Canada and a few other institutional investors.

Bruce Lakefield hired John Luth from Seabury and he raised the money for the merger, so the money was raised by US Airways, not HP.

Seabury was instumental in making the deal happen, but they did not raise all the money.Seabury=$350 million

Something to the tune of 3.6 billion made this deal happen, and Seabury raised $350 million, or about on tenth of it.


The money raised is only part of the story. That is why the AWA stockholders ended up with the largest single grouping of LCC stock by far, more than double what any other invesment group had after the merger.

I really do not know if HP made AAA payroll or not, but since all the money collected was put into Barbell Aquisition, and then Barbell merged into AWHC, the only entity standing that had an excess of cash on hand was America West Holdings Corp, and that is probably where the AWA made AAA payroll issues came from.