US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nycbusdriver]

First of all, once the f/a's are integrated then their TA is null and void and they can all fly with east or west pilots.

The F/As are not "integrated" until a joint contract is signed. True, they have no seniority issue to hold back a contract, but there are lots of other things that make prospects for a joint contract dim in the short term. No matter how much you think or hope it's true, the flight attendants are not integrated just because they agree on seniority.

Can someone explain what opening up a pilot satellite has to do with f/a's? Does your company have a policy of only flying pilots and f/a's from common bases?

Yes. That is the east policy for scheduled trips. Reserves can get bounced around out of base on a "per trip" basis to cover open positions.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I've heard of some airlines keeping pilots and f/as together for an entire pairing. But I've never heard of this co-domicile thing, and don't think any other company does this. At UA we have pilot domiciles where there are no f/a domiciles, and f/a domiciles where no pilot domicile exists. JFK pilots fly with west coast f/a's all the time. Heck sometimes we have f/a's from 3 or 4 different domiciles on different pairings on each flight.

Okay. Tell me this. How could it be physically possible for flight attendants and pilots to keep together for an entire pairing if they are not co-domiciled?

About UA having pilot domiciles where there are no F/As, and F/A domiciles where there are no pilots: We don't really care how you do things at UA. This is not a UA thread.

So what would prevent the company from moving 330's (those not specifically covered in the TA) to PHX and 320's to CLT to keep minimum fleet numbers, or having west crews in a PHL satellite fly to Europe to destinations announced after the TA was signed, with east f/a's on "non-TA 330's?"

The company is free to move the "unprotected" A330s to PHX any time they please. But, they don't. Because PHX has the misfortune of being geographically too far from Europe for any route to be operated with one airframe, it would take two airframes to operate a PHX-Europe city pair. That means the market needs to be oh-so-lucrative, i.e. BOTH high yield AND high load factor. Such a market does not now exist, and that's why there are no A330s in PHX. If it were profitable, it would have been done already. This is aside from the fact that the A330-300 model does not really have the range to go from Europe to PHX non-stop much of the time.

I'm not sure what the east F/A restrictions are, but until the pilot contract is signed, the west pilots cannot fly any PHL-transatlantic city pairs that were in effect or announced at the time of the merger. This leaves only a few possibilities, as most of the European destinations from PHL were operated long before the merger was announced. They could do TelAviv, of course. And Oslo (which is too small a market for the A330.) Maybe Athens (a seasonal destination.)

 

[flybynite]

Now here is the truth mixed with clever humor. My guess is Cleary and gangs heads are going to explode after watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaQFQC0MAY

It looks to me as though someone has way too much time on their hands.

 

[Ames]

Jim,

Plausible, but not likely. First of all, the 767's will remain East per Attachments A and B. As for the 5 or 7 additional A330's not covered in the Attachments, the West can only operate 2 daily round trips from points east of the Mississippi to Europe and Caribbean (unless Parker takes them to the Pacific I suppose.....very unlikely). So, unless he would like to operate some domestically, I wouldn't hold your breath. Until we see any real growth, the minimum fleet will govern primarily.

Worst case.....we lose the 5 or 7 A332's, we see a little less International flying (less wear and tear on us) and we make MORE MONEY! I don't see a problem with that.

FYI - 20 A350's are on the East Attachment B (If we ever see them). Another PLUS for seperate ops if NIC is crammed up our a**.

Sorry Ames. Once again, not the watershed you dream of.

So you do concede the possibility. Never claimed a watershed but if snapbacks go your way this could happen and any new growth would go west. I think, however, lots of other things will happen before it ever gets this far.

 

[Ames]

Good points, PI brat. To be fair, the West wanted 90% of the 3 additional 757 slots. They didn't arbitrate. Freund told them they'd lose. So they took 50% (maybe less, I don't have the exact data, too lazy to look up also)

They did arbitrate. You're right. You ARE lazy.

 

[Ames]

They're more hard over than USAPA about DOH. 25 years is junior out East and I can't wait to turn those gals loose on your posterior.

Just keep dreamin' about that East bid
.

What exactly will "those gals" do when assigned to fly with a west crew? Are they gonna open up a can of whoopa$$ on us? Gosh! I was scared to pair up with an east pilot but now I'm really really scared!!! GMAFB! Listen up. "Those gals" will do their job efficiently and professionally or they will be removed from their trip so fast their heads will spin. Act up twice....you're gone.

 

[Pi brat]

What exactly will "those gals" do when assigned to fly with a west crew? Are they gonna open up a can of whoopa$$ on us? Gosh! I was scared to pair up with an east pilot but now I'm really really scared!!! GMAFB! Listen up. "Those gals" will do their job efficiently and professionally or they will be removed from their trip so fast their heads will spin. Act up twice....you're gone.

East F/As-Maybe you should give up on co-pairing, can you imagine being stuck with this for 4 days?

 

[cleardirect]

Cd,

You are either dreaming or bellying up to the bar with DP and Mike Flores down there in tempe. The East F/A's are not going to vote yes on any contract that eliminates the 'Me too' clause

You do know that the AFA is capable of negotiating their own contract. They do not and will not wait for the pilots this time.

You also know that the AFA is in talks with the company 2 weeks a month right. Neither side is going to waste the resources if they can't get to a contract.

If they get their stuff, trip rigs duty rigs ect. They don't need the me too clause. Maybe this time it will be usapa that has to get the me too. That would be funny usapa the weaker union letting the ladies (and guys) lead the way this time.

 

[fatherabraham]

East F/As-Maybe you should give up on co-pairing, can you imagine being stuck with this for 4 days?

He has not a clue

 

[Pi brat]

It looks to me as though someone has way too much time on their hands.

Man this is embarrassing. I don't think they have to worry about an Oscar.
:blush:

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

I think you are wrong. The east pilots don't "think they deserve it all." We think we deserve what we brought to the table. As you point out, that means a minimum fleet count including the number of 767s, 757s and A330s that were here at the time of the merger. But, what we also think we deserve is that our east pilots get first opportunity to capture the attrition into those same airplanes, and to capture shared growth. THAT is what this is all about.

The fact that Parker has given "it all" to the east to date is nothing more than his placing the assets where they make the most money. If/when that changes, all we want is what we brought, the attrition associated with it and any shared growth commensurate with the TA.

So should the former PI Pilots have all the 767 slots, since they were bought and ordered by PI and not US?

 

[flybynite]

What exactly will "those gals" do when assigned to fly with a west crew? Are they gonna open up a can of whoopa$$ on us? Gosh! I was scared to pair up with an east pilot but now I'm really really scared!!! GMAFB! Listen up. "Those gals" will do their job efficiently and professionally or they will be removed from their trip so fast their heads will spin. Act up twice....you're gone.

You are assuming that we will not be co-pairing with the pilots. That remains to be seen. Most of the f/a's I've talked to regard separation from the pilot pairings as a concession and will not vote for it. Myself included.

These old gals are pros but we are menopausal and a force of nature.

 

[767jetz]

Do you really think we care about flying the big airplanes, or (like every other pilot in the world) what pays better?

Sometimes it appears that some on the east care more about the big airplanes or the fourth stripe than the pay. I could never figure this out, because logic would dictate that at this point in our careers, with the industry as F U -ed as it has been, pay and quality of life trumps everything else.

Look at BA as an example. What pilot wouldn't want to fly Concorde? But it was always junior because of pay and the fact that they would have to fly transatlantic turns due to the short flight time.

Since the arbitration I remember all the arguing when the West points out that a lion's share of the pay, benefit, and work rule improvements would go to the east. The most common response has to do with never seeing a captain position and the 330 flying. In reality most east f/o's would have already been making close to current east captain pay all this time, with better vacation, and quality of life, while keeping a larger % of the actual combined attrition.

I know you guys are hanging in there for the LOA 93 pay restoration. But if that does not bear any fruit, does that mean that you and others would consider other options to increase your pay and QOL, rather than see this drag on in the courts for years to come with no guarantee of the final outcome?

 

[cleardirect]

So should the former PI Pilots have all the 767 slots, since they were bought and ordered by PI and not US?

I guess the old Us Air never had any expectation to fly out of CLT. Using usapa logic they should have been able to bid in. If PIT closes to bad. It must have been unprofitable.

 

[767jetz]

The F/As are not "integrated" until a joint contract is signed.

No matter how much you think or hope it's true, the flight attendants are not integrated just because they agree on seniority.

I never said they were. My questions were posed in the future tense assuming the possibility that they may at some point have a contract. Sorry if I was not clear about that.

Yes. That is the east policy for scheduled trips. Reserves can get bounced around out of base on a "per trip" basis to cover open positions.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering.