US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nycbusdriver]

Easy. As one example, a 4 day pairing of flight attendants from PHX could layover in PHL on day one, fly the next 2 days with a PHL pilot crew, and end up in PHX on day 4.

What you just stated is NOT an example of pilots and flight attendants flying the same pairing. Just on first glance, the flight attendants are on a 4-day trip, while the pilots are on a 2-day trip. That is DIFFERENT trips no matter how you do it at UA.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Not all the 767s were bought and ordered by PI.

PI had ordered them, they were all delivered, US canceled three and then had to exercise options Piedmont had placed, US never ordered 767s.

 

[767jetz]

What you just stated is NOT an example of pilots and flight attendants flying the same pairing. Just on first glance, the flight attendants are on a 4-day trip, while the pilots are on a 2-day trip. That is DIFFERENT trips no matter how you do it at UA.

Wow, I can't believe it is such a hard principle to grasp. OK, one more time. And remember, this is only ONE possible solution of many. IF the pilots need to have the same flight attendants on THEIR entire paring, and the flight attendants DO NOT, and IF the f/a's negotiate this into a contract and integrate before the pilots do, THEN the scenario can work without violating anyone's agreement.

I still think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, in order to distract everyone from my actual point, which has nothing to do with who does what or how at which airline. Once again, my point is that there are POSSIBLE scenarios (even probable) where a PHX 330 satellite in PHL to fly a handful of international city pairs could work for the company, especially if you win any pay restorations, and that the 330's are not the exclusive domain of the east under any and all circumstances. But I know, I know... you have all the answers. So carry on with your rants and attacks. It won't change the fact that others see things differently.

Try to remember that the only reason I even brought this up is because someone claimed a satellite base for pilots wouldn't work because of the f/a's, and "all kinds of contract and TA language." I disagree because no one knows what the future holds, and there certainly are many possibilities that could make it a reality.

 

[cleardirect]

Jim,


But as I've said in an earlier post....the company wants the pilots and f/a's to have co-pairings. It was part of their proposal 2 years ago.

There is a enough wiggle room for a pilot agreement down the line yet co-pair the two work groups until the pilots figure out a decent contract.

We'll see. 🙂

I think a whole lot of things have changed in the last two years. The last I heard it was the east F/A's not the company that wants co-pair. The company gets much better use out of the west F/A's by not being co-paired so I don't see them giving that up.

Personally I hope that the F/A's don't wait until the pilots are done. They would be waiting a long time.

 

[Al Legheny]

Wow, I can't believe it is such a hard principle to grasp. OK, one more time. And remember, this is only ONE possible solution of many. IF the pilots need to have the same flight attendants on THEIR entire paring, and the flight attendants DO NOT, and IF the f/a's negotiate this into a contract and integrate before the pilots do, THEN the scenario can work without violating anyone's agreement.

I still think you are arguing for the sake of arguing, in order to distract everyone from my actual point, which has nothing to do with who does what or how at which airline. Once again, my point is that there are POSSIBLE scenarios (even probable) where a PHX 330 satellite in PHL to fly a handful of international city pairs could work for the company, especially if you win any pay restorations, and that the 330's are not the exclusive domain of the east under any and all circumstances. But I know, I know... you have all the answers. So carry on with your rants and attacks. It won't change the fact that others see things differently.

Try to remember that the only reason I even brought this up is because someone claimed a satellite base for pilots wouldn't work because of the f/a's, and "all kinds of contract and TA language." I disagree because no one knows what the future holds, and there certainly are many possibilities that could make it a reality.

I dunno, seems like a lot of If's.

Whatif

Last night, while I lay thinking here,
Some Whatifs crawled inside my ear
And pranced and partied all night long
And sang their same old Whatif song:
Whatif I'm dumb in school?
Whatif they've closed the swimming pol?
Whatif I get beat up?
Whatif there's poison in my cup?
Whatif I start to cry?
Whatif I get sick and die?
Whatif I flunk that test?
Whatif green hair grows on my chest?
Whatif nobody likes me?
Whatif a bolt of lightning strikes me?
Whatif I don't grow talle?
Whatif my head starts getting smaller?
Whatif the fish won't bite?
Whatif the wind tears up my kite?
Whatif they start a war?
Whatif my parents get divorced?
Whatif the bus is late?
Whatif my teeth don't grow in straight?
Whatif I tear my pants?
Whatif I never learn to dance?
Everything seems swell, and then
The nighttime Whatifs strike again!

A kids poem from Shel Silverstein

 

[notsofast]

Try to remember that when the west guys are pushing back from the CLT gates bound for FRA and you are holding your USAPA Strike picket out by the curb.

Do what your used to doing I suppose.

 

[notsofast]

The Teamsters Airline Division has formed a strategic alliance with the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), which represents 5,200 pilots who fly for US Airways.

 

[notsofast]

Personally I hope that the F/A's don't wait until the pilots are done. They would be waiting a long time.

The heat sounds like it is being turned up a little according to the following newspaper article.

US Airways pilots plan job action

 

[767jetz]

The heat sounds like it is being turned up a little according to the following newspaper article.

US Airways pilots plan job action

Picketing and unity are a healthy thing, and (trying to see the positive here) at least they are now directing some attention to the company instead of other pilots. But I have my doubts about whether any unity actually exists. If it does, or can be established, then kudos for you guys.

Now for the negative:

"In a statement, the union accused US Airways of stalling during negotiations and of benefiting financially by keeping pilot pay among the lowest in the industry."

With this being one of the longest, drawn out, public, botched up seniority integrations ever, does USAPA really think that anyone other than themselves (the traveling public, other employees, the company, the NMB, the west pilots, anyone) will believe that US Airways' management are the stalling party at the table?

(With the exception of maybe one Longshoreman. 😀 )

 

[Captain Underpants]

The heat sounds like it is being turned up a little according to the following newspaper article.

US Airways pilots plan job action

Yes I can confirm USAPA is planning for a strike should it become necessary to secure a ratified fair contract. Of course a strike has to be authorized by the BPR and the active membership by vote plus a release for self-help by the NMB before the strike can begin. The active membership can authorize a strike with a vote of 50% + 1. The USAPA strike plan will preclude West pilots from acting as strikebreakers.

The NMB has a mandate by law and is required to try to coax the two parties to a ratifiable contract agreement to prevent the need for an expensive and damaging strike. The NMB has a 99% success rate in achieving contract agreements without a labor strike. Federal courts are specifically excluded from trying to interfere in the NMB process. It is possible however for a Presidential Emergency Board or Congress to force settlement of the contract dispute in order to prevent a damaging strike.

underpants

 

[BLT]

Strikes don't occur until the endgame. USAPA in all their wisdom started at square one with negotiations so their fine work wouldn't be tainted by ALPA's previous progress. I think it is fair to say USAPA has not even gotten past first base in their "new negotiations". Very sad. A little premature to be talking about strikes.

 

[Mtnman928]

Try to remember that when the west guys are pushing back from the CLT gates bound for FRA and you are holding your USAPA Strike picket out by the curb. USAPA needs to stop burying it's head in the sand regarding unity and begin the hard work of building some, or it risks this very scenario becoming a reality.

Yep, it'll be nice sitting in that big ol 330 while those USAPA creeps are pounding the pavement.

Let's see, I'll be able to commute to a nice cushy International trip 3 times a month.

But wait, there aren't many flights out of PHX now. I'll just jump on United, American or maybe UPS. What's that? You don't let Scabs fly on your Jumpseat. HMMM, I'm going to have to figure another way to work.

But hey, we'll be back in ALPA in no time and we'll take care of all those pesky USAPA guys that tossed them out in the first place. Oh, ALPA doesn't want to touch us with a 10 ft. pole. But what about Continental? They got back in. HMMM, maybe they just wanted a big pilot forced and all that dues money.

What the heck, I'll just move to Charlotte and I don't care about crossing any picket lines.

I thought everyone here the south was friendly? I wonder why my new neighbor keeps calling me a scab?

Maybe because you have become one!

 

[cleardirect]

Yes I can confirm USAPA is planning for a strike should it become necessary to secure a ratified fair contract. Of course a strike has to be authorized by the BPR and the active membership by vote plus a release for self-help by the NMB before the strike can begin. The active membership can authorize a strike with a vote of 50% + 1. The USAPA strike plan will preclude West pilots from acting as strikebreakers.

The NMB has a mandate by law and is required to try to coax the two parties to a ratifiable contract agreement to prevent the need for an expensive and damaging strike. The NMB has a 99% success rate in achieving contract agreements without a labor strike. Federal courts are specifically excluded from trying to interfere in the NMB process. It is possible however for a Presidential Emergency Board or Congress to force settlement of the contract dispute in order to prevent a damaging strike.

underpants

I would not suggest taking a strike vote if it is known that it will be 50%+1 or 60% or even 70%. In this case a simple majority is not good enough. If you think that the west is going to vote to strike if the Nicolau is not included you all had better think again. usapa is stuck. A 50-60-70% strike vote shows management the weakness among the pilots. No strike vote, no strike, no leverage. What will usapa do??????????

Oh yea!!! CHAOS! Right, still have to get past the strike vote. Still have to get past the NMB to release.

BTW how is that usapa strike center shaping up? Office space rented? Phone lines installed, computers in place? How close is this strike?

 

[cleardirect]

Yep, it'll be nice sitting in that big ol 330 while those USAPA creeps are pounding the pavement.

Let's see, I'll be able to commute to a nice cushy International trip 3 times a month.

But wait, there aren't many flights out of PHX now. I'll just jump on United, American or maybe UPS. What's that? You don't let Scabs fly on your Jumpseat. HMMM, I'm going to have to figure another way to work.

But hey, we'll be back in ALPA in no time and we'll take care of all those pesky USAPA guys that tossed them out in the first place. Oh, ALPA doesn't want to touch us with a 10 ft. pole. But what about Continental? They got back in. HMMM, maybe they just wanted a big pilot forced and all that dues money.

What the heck, I'll just move to Charlotte and I don't care about crossing any picket lines.

I thought everyone here the south was friendly? I wonder why my new neighbor keeps calling me a scab?

Maybe because you have become one!

Is there a picket line I don't know about? Who became a s**b?

Also making an assumption that other unions would care what usapa had to say about someone crossing their picket line.

You mean that association that tried to ignore final binding arbitration and staple 80% of the other guys to the bottom. Really and those guys did not want to strike to support that kind of treatment. Never mind. BTW is that Crimi guy still in a leadership role?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yes I can confirm USAPA is planning for a strike should it become necessary to secure a ratified fair contract. Of course a strike has to be authorized by the BPR and the active membership by vote plus a release for self-help by the NMB before the strike can begin. The active membership can authorize a strike with a vote of 50% + 1. The USAPA strike plan will preclude West pilots from acting as strikebreakers.

The NMB has a mandate by law and is required to try to coax the two parties to a ratifiable contract agreement to prevent the need for an expensive and damaging strike. The NMB has a 99% success rate in achieving contract agreements without a labor strike. Federal courts are specifically excluded from trying to interfere in the NMB process. It is possible however for a Presidential Emergency Board or Congress to force settlement of the contract dispute in order to prevent a damaging strike.

underpants

Boy would I love to see the belly laughs coming from Management over this. If there was any doubt that USAPA is clueless and desperate I think it is gone with this little foray into lunatic land. Contemplating a strike without unity is guaranteed to fail and put USAPA in a worse situation than they are already in. A monkey using a magic 8 ball could make better decisions than USAPA's "leadership".