US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[767intl]

First of all, once the f/a's are integrated then their TA is null and void and they can all fly with east or west pilots. Can someone explain what opening up a pilot satellite has to do with f/a's? Does your company have a policy of only flying pilots and f/a's from common bases?

Oh geez! More outside chatter. Sure, the FAs TA is null and void with a new contract. But don't count on their new contract allowing flying with West crews until the pilot contract is in place. Your question in your first paragraph shows your totally out of our loop. They could move the 330s to PHX they want, but the INTL trips, at least now, don't start in PHX. I doubt there will be a market for that for years to come out of PHX to anywhere in Europe. Most of our 330s don't have PHX-Europe range anyway. The rest of your what ifs don't make enough sense to comment on. Jetz, stick with reality and the current status quo. From the FAs I fly with, they are miles away from an agreement, maybe further away than we are. The company knows Separate Ops for FAs make more sense than for pilots. They're in no hurry.

I've heard of some airlines keeping pilots and f/as together for an entire pairing. But I've never heard of this co-domicile thing, and don't think any other company does this. At UA we have pilot domiciles where there are no f/a domiciles, and f/a domiciles where no pilot domicile exists. JFK pilots fly with west coast f/a's all the time. Heck sometimes we have f/a's from 3 or 4 different domiciles on different pairings on each flight.

Who cares what other airlines do. Stick to UA posting where you may have some credibility.

So what would prevent the company from moving 330's (those not specifically covered in the TA) to PHX and 320's to CLT to keep minimum fleet numbers, or having west crews in a PHL satellite fly to Europe to destinations announced after the TA was signed, with east f/a's on "non-TA 330's?"

All kinds of contract and TA language.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Every east FA I have had the pleasure of meeting has been a class act.

You do know the East AFA wants to take away our privilege to ride the cabin jumpseat, don't you? If any Easties aren't aware the West pilots are able to sit on cabin jumpseats presuming no FAs want them. And they're well aware it's the FAA/TSA prohibiting FAs on the cockpit jumpseat, not the pilots.

 

[767jetz]

Oh geez! More outside chatter.

Your question in your first paragraph shows your totally out of our loop.

Who cares what other airlines do. Stick to UA posting where you may have some credibility.

EDITED BY MODERATOR TO REMOVE REFERENCE TO PERSONAL COMMENT


Notice I was referring to international flying out of PHL, not just PHX. And it has been posted by others that the TA specifically excludes new destinations announced after the TA. You also failed to explain your notion that a satellite base would not work for the pilots because there would be no f/a's to fly the trips.

If you do not care to answer my questions, you could simply not respond and let another person, with something intelligent to say, field the question. The rest is just emotional blabber.

 

[767jetz]

All kinds of contract and TA language.

Wow! "All kinds," huh? Now that's insightful. Care to expand on that a bit?

 

[jetjok1]

The F/A seniority is settled. So that is not really an issue for them.

Oh scary F/A's. Please! I expect them to be as cordial as our F/A's are. Our seniority is not their battle.

Keep dreaming about that DOH!

Like I said the F/A will have a contract soon and we will be flying with them shortly after. I have no problem with that. How about you flying with west F/A's?

I would have no problem flying with the west F/A's just like I would have no problem flying with the west pilots. Pretty simple...isn't it?

 

[nic4us]

You do know the East AFA wants to take away our privilege to ride the cabin jumpseat, don't you? If any Easties aren't aware the West pilots are able to sit on cabin jumpseats presuming no FAs want them. And they're well aware it's the FAA/TSA prohibiting FAs on the cockpit jumpseat, not the pilots.

Well, I am aware that pilots cannot ride on the east metal cabin jumpseats.

I was not aware that the AFA was actively seeking to end the West cabin jump policy.

I had a long old post full of ideas to add, but I think I will go visit the AFA thread real quick and get back to you on this.

 

[cleardirect]

Now here is the truth mixed with clever humor. My guess is Cleary and gangs heads are going to explode after watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaQFQC0MAY

 

[nic4us]

The best things about this video are, Theur can't edit it, and Cleary can't recall it.

Leeham,Sheman&Shyster is the next Tom Cruise!

 

[Freebird]

I would have no problem flying with the west F/A's just like I would have no problem flying with the west pilots. Pretty simple...isn't it?

From the right seat? Serious question (assuming you are an FO).

 

[Freebird]

Thanks for the info. 767, but let's not confuse them with the facts, they are happier when they think they are being screwed!

Shouldnt this be directed at the East pilots?

Seriously folks, there is no need to rewrite history on this board. The information is out there and for your convieince it's summed up nicely in a Binding Arbitration called the Nicolau Award. You were party to its origination. You can have a free copy of it as well.

Usapa = Myopia Rulz

 

[jetjok1]

From the right seat? Serious question (assuming you are an FO).

I'm not a FO. Serious answer

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'll take the committee's numbers as accurate on the date specified. That still leaves a couple of things - call them food for thought. One is the block hour minimum - minimum fleet count doesn't prevent the company from shifting block hours where needed to comply with the block hour limits and the East should be well in excess of those (the E190's don't count toward fleet min but do count toward block hour min). The other is equipment type - for minimum fleet an A332 counts the same as an A319/733 so nothing prevents the company from shifting aircraft that aren't included in the transition agreement appendix A back and forth as long as the min fleet and block hours are complied with.

In other words, if the East should win the LOA93 pay grievance you could be betting your 767Intl job that Parker won't decide that it costs too much for the East to fly those A332's and create satellite West bases in PHL/CLT for the A332 flying while replacing the A332's flown by East pilots with A320's. Parker may be many things, but dumb isn't one of them. I'd be very surprised if they haven't looked at all these issues and know exactly what they can and can't do.

It seems that many East pilots consider the A332's, the three 757's, the E190's, and the remaining Airbus deliveries (especially the A332's) as "their" airplanes that can't be taken away. Depending on events, they may be sadly mistaken...

Jim

Not a problem. I will happily take the little bus 2002 Restructuring pay rates if I get displaced out of the transatlantic flying. It still a hefty pay raise, and since the west has negotiated a pay rate equivalent to our LOA 93 rates for the A330, let them trek across the country to sit reserve in PHL or CLT to fly them, while I get a $20+ per hour raise to fly the little bus domestic and hold a very senior block.

Throw me in that briar patch, BB. In fact, I would LOVE to get displaced off transatlantic into a little bus seat that pays $40+/hour more than the west pilots make for the same equipment.. I hope your scenario comes true and Parker opens a PHL/CLT crew base for the west. Unlikely he will do it in PHL since there are not many city pairs not protected already by the TA. I wonder if the cost of the training float would be worth it, as well as a duplication of staff, administration and infrastructure?

Do you really think we care about flying the big airplanes, or (like every other pilot in the world) what pays better?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Or, putting it in the past tense, seized as if by authority. As you say, "Many east pilots might think the deserve it all". I would say that many East pilots see the extra flying generated by the post-merger deliveries as belonging to the East. In their minds, they've seized that flying so ergo confiscated it.

Jim

I think you are wrong. The east pilots don't "think they deserve it all." We think we deserve what we brought to the table. As you point out, that means a minimum fleet count including the number of 767s, 757s and A330s that were here at the time of the merger. But, what we also think we deserve is that our east pilots get first opportunity to capture the attrition into those same airplanes, and to capture shared growth. THAT is what this is all about.

The fact that Parker has given "it all" to the east to date is nothing more than his placing the assets where they make the most money. If/when that changes, all we want is what we brought, the attrition associated with it and any shared growth commensurate with the TA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Can't do it Jim - it's specifically forbidden by the Flight Attendant TA.


As usual, those PIT gals did a far better job than ALPA ever could.

Very interesting. Having never looked at what the flight attendants negotiated for the merger, can you enlighten us? It would be ironic that the "me, too" union would actually be the force to protect the east pilots' positions.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The F/A seniority is settled. So that is not really an issue for them.

Oh scary F/A's. Please! I expect them to be as cordial as our F/A's are. Our seniority is not their battle.

Keep dreaming about that DOH!

Like I said the F/A will have a contract soon and we will be flying with them shortly after. I have no problem with that. How about you flying with west F/A's?

Ooh. Okay. Believe this at your own peril.

And, you will find that the more senior the flight attendant, the more hard-core DOH he/she is. And for the most part, they really think the east pilots got shafted by Nicolau.