US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Freighterguynow]

The F/A will have a new contract soon. That means the east F/A's will be flying with west pilots. Kind of removes that road block.

They're more hard over than USAPA about DOH. 25 years is junior out East and I can't wait to turn those gals loose on your posterior.

Just keep dreamin' about that East bid
.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I see lots of talk but very few facts. For example, satellite bases are allowed but TDY isn't (read IIB8).

US Airways or America West shall not open a flight attendant domicile in any location where the other airline operates a flight attendant domicile

 

[BoeingBoy]

US Airways or America West shall not open a flight attendant domicile in any location where the other airline operates a flight attendant domicile

I guess putting it in bold is supposed to mean something...

Note that there aren't two airlines any longer. LCC operates all flight attendant domicles. The AFA transition agreement governs certain actions before FA integration, but upon FA integration the AFA transition agreement goes away (just like the pilot transition would when pilots are integrated). I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but once the FA's are integrated into a single group their transition agreement is meaningless - some pages of paper filed away for history. The combined contract will govern from that point forward.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

They're more hard over than USAPA about DOH. 25 years is junior out East and I can't wait to turn those gals loose on your posterior.

Just keep dreamin' about that East bid
.

The F/A seniority is settled. So that is not really an issue for them.

Oh scary F/A's. Please! I expect them to be as cordial as our F/A's are. Our seniority is not their battle.

Keep dreaming about that DOH!

Like I said the F/A will have a contract soon and we will be flying with them shortly after. I have no problem with that. How about you flying with west F/A's?

 

[Freighterguynow]

I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but once the FA's are integrated into a single group their transition agreement is meaningless - some pages of paper filed away for history. The combined contract will govern from that point forward.

Jim

Not hard at all - the flight attendants are just as far apart as the pilots so your your West pilots in East bases is just a fantasy.

 

[hp_fa]

Clear,

I'm not sure that the FA's will have a new contract anytime soon. Between the PBS issue, the reserve issues, the follow the pilots on trips issues, the East tidying the cabin on west coast issues and the unknown money issues I see a no vote coming. I could well be wrong, but the scuttlebutt I am getting says there are potentially a lot of no votes waiting to be cast.

Because FA's have normally negotiated and ratified once a pilot contract is in place and because I don't see a pilot contract being set for a vote for 2-3 years, this will continue to be a huge labor mess.

 

[Pi brat]

To make peace, however, I'll let you pick the word. What would you call it when a group claims a right to something that they have no authority to claim?

Jim

West! Jim, you're a hoot!

 

[Pi brat]

Good points, PI brat. To be fair, the West wanted 90% of the 3 additional 757 slots. They didn't arbitrate.

Thanks for the info. 767, but let's not confuse them with the facts, they are happier when they think they are being screwed!

 

[Pi brat]

Clear,

I'm not sure that the FA's will have a new contract anytime soon.

I think you are right hp fa. From what I've heard they haven't even gotten to the money part. A lot of the ones I've flown with don't seem too happy with AFA's direction, but you never know until the votes are counted.

 

[767intl]

I see lots of talk but very few facts. For example, satellite bases are allowed but TDY isn't (read IIB8). So much faith in the FA transition agreement while ignoring that it only applies until the FA's are integrated. Airplane delivery plans are set in stone? That stone changed quickly late last year when US put off deliveries. I assume 767Intl is referring to IIB4b,c, & d which specifies how minimum fleet and block hours are determined. Maybe he/she should read it again. Note that min block hours is based on the previous 12 month's average less 10%. Unlike min fleet, min block isn't a set figure. With the reduction in capacity during 2009, what is happening to min block?

Jim

So Parker could open "satellite" bases back East? Using what FAs? He's had the TA in place for 5 years and hasn't done anything except close four bases. Now you think he will because of a LOA93 win? You can't make an argument that we'll get whipsawed out of block hours based on the assumption there will be a FA contract that allows FAs to fly out of anywhere, based on their DOH. I don't see FA integration until there's pilot integration. Until that happens, if ever, your just guessing, hoping. As usual hoping your former pilots will get screwed. A lot of bitterness there, boeing. The TA hull floor still rules. Based on the transcript, it appeared the recent arbitration made clear that the 10% reduction in block hours only referred to the second year compared to the first year, not comparing each additional year to the prior year. There was testimony on that, boeing. That's the way I heard it. You got different notes, then post them. For sake of argument, let's say your right (your not) and they could reduce block hours 10% per year. The TA is clear they can't reduce hulls 10% per year. There at or near rock bottom. Even with a full LOA93 win it makes no sense to drop daily utilization for the purpose of saving money on flight crews. Isom crunches numbers, not waste his time with gotchas. If it made sense doing a satellite base based on pay differential, it would have happened a long time ago. Not only did it make no economic sense, but the FA contract wouldn't have allowed it then and I doubt if the next one (if it gets here before ours) will either. I don't know, and you sure don't know. I do talk the the cabin crews every flight. I don't see that happening.

Clear,

I'm not sure that the FA's will have a new contract anytime soon. Between the PBS issue, the reserve issues, the follow the pilots on trips issues, the East tidying the cabin on west coast issues and the unknown money issues I see a no vote coming. I could well be wrong, but the scuttlebutt I am getting says there are potentially a lot of no votes waiting to be cast.

Because FA's have normally negotiated and ratified once a pilot contract is in place and because I don't see a pilot contract being set for a vote for 2-3 years, this will continue to be a huge labor mess.

hp_, thought you'd gone into permanent hiding. Maybe you ought to PM that one to Boeingboy. His and Ames whipsaw is pie-in-the-sky.

 

[flybynite]

The F/A seniority is settled. So that is not really an issue for them.

Oh scary F/A's. Please! I expect them to be as cordial as our F/A's are. Our seniority is not their battle.

Keep dreaming about that DOH!

Like I said the F/A will have a contract soon and we will be flying with them shortly after. I have no problem with that. How about you flying with west F/A's?

Sorry darling....there is no f/a contract to be ratified any time soon. There are just as many open sections to be hashed out as you fellas/gals.
Granted we don't have the seniority issues you have but we are still far apart on many things.

And yes....we are cordial but please don't try to start in on us about DOH.

And I'm sure our pilots will be cordial and nice to the west f/a's.

 

[767intl]

Thanks for the info. 767, but let's not confuse them with the facts, they are happier when they think they are being screwed!

I might be a little off on the percentage they'd get, but it was an IOU. They tried to spin it as a win.

Funny, but remember Garland Jones? He tried to spin the E190 West IOU as a win for them because for the first time it recognized the 3/2 (or whatever ratio it was) ratio. As I said, unless the pay rates go up on the 190 or someone is just left-seat-enamered, or bids to fly out of his home, I don't see E190CA as any kind of a prize for either side.

 

[john john]

some pages of paper filed away for history.

YEP!
want to add to that

 

[luvn737s]

Sorry, Jim. Satellite (temporary) bases not allowed on other side's turf.

You may want to read the TA, too. You can't use one part to make your point and ignore II,4,b,c,d.

I would not be surprised to see Parker go to court and ask a judge a void the TA. It was never intended to be a long-term agreement and if the court saw the company facing significant harm from one side's failure to negotiate in good faith and realize uniintended gains by simply dragging out the process, they may let the company off the hook. USAPA could sue, but by then a new leadership slate that would be installed who would quickly reverse the Cleary Doctrine, so that probably wouldn't happen. I would expect once Cleary has been recalled you will see his successor much less litigation-happy and more prone to unify the pilots.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Clear,

I'm not sure that the FA's will have a new contract anytime soon. Between the PBS issue, the reserve issues, the follow the pilots on trips issues, the East tidying the cabin on west coast issues and the unknown money issues I see a no vote coming. I could well be wrong, but the scuttlebutt I am getting says there are potentially a lot of no votes waiting to be cast.



Don't forget the West AFA MEC chair rummaging through the East's luggage after they left for "the Sulley", stealing a confidential USAPA Negotiating Committee document, making illegal copies and dispersing them.

Oh yea, she was the spouse of the first PHX USAPA rep.

Integrity Matters!