US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[snapthis]

http://airlineforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=8810

I have to admit that's a pretty good dig at Leonidas. That looks kind of like a pick of an East pilot. I though you guys were all about who flies the biggest airplanes, wearing 4 stripes as an FO, etc.

 

[cleardirect]

Re read what they said about them accepting the Nicolau list from ALPA. Again. Who did they accept it from? ALPA. They accepted it from the FORMER bargaining agent. How many times do we have to go over this? And if the accepted the Nic as final and binding, why then are they waiting for us to "resolve the seniority issue" Because they have to. Because it is an internal union affair, and we are resolving it. It was resolved by the 9th although you continue to re-write it. I am going to be patient , and wait for the court to come back and make it clear and direct one more time.

The ninth resolved nothing. All they said was not yet. When you have a final product bring it back and we will look at it.

Who is usapa trying to resolve it with? The company does not want any part of this, that is why they are asking the court to decide. usapa can not resolve it with the west pilots. Maybe usapa is playing with themselves. I think that is an accurate statement. "and we are resolving it" Two east guys in a room deciding how they are going to screw the west. Even the company can see that is not going to resolve anything.

 

[nic4us]

Finally, we would like to finish this update by unveiling our new tie tack. Click here to
see a picture.

I just bought a $150 tie tack that I am going to give to Mr. Seham as a parting gift he can keep as a token of the millions he has swindled from this pilot group.

What I find offensive is your comparing a trinket I will gladly give away, to military decoration, no matter how gaudily it is displayed in your picture.

 

[luvthe9]

I just bought a $150 tie tack that I am going to give to Mr. Seham as a parting gift he can keep as a token of the millions he has swindled from this pilot group.

What I find offensive is your comparing a trinket I will gladly give away, to military decoration, no matter how gaudily it is displayed in your picture.

Well, how can you call Leonidas an Army in that vein of thought?

 

[luvthe9]

The ninth resolved nothing. All they said was not yet. When you have a final product bring it back and we will look at it.

Who is usapa trying to resolve it with? The company does not want any part of this, that is why they are asking the court to decide. usapa can not resolve it with the west pilots. Maybe usapa is playing with themselves. I think that is an accurate statement. "and we are resolving it" Two east guys in a room deciding how they are going to screw the west. Even the company can see that is not going to resolve anything.

"The 9th resolved nothing......" here we go again. I believe it invalidated Wake, and how much did that "nothing" cost you in cash and resolve? And it clearly said the Nicolau did not have to be in the seniority integration. If you call that nothing, well the spin machine is going into high gear again. I am going to give you a break clear, and lets' wait till the next court clarification. I can't wait for the spin on that one.

 

[nic4us]

And it clearly said the Nicolau did not have to be in the seniority integration.

That is correct, the 9th said that usapa might actually negotiate a seniority list with the company that does not have the "disadvantages plaintiffs fear".

What they were saying is the West might be happy enough to not sue usapa in the future, they did not say usapa was free to negotiate away from the Nic, without fear of being sued. Quite the contrary actually, that is why the company is getting involved.

usapa obviously does not know what the 9th said, or they are lying in their communication.

Either that or the company lawyers misunderstand what the 9th said, but being as the company's interpretation goes along the same lines as everyone else's, I would have to think that it is usapa that can't read.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That is correct, the 9th said that usapa might actually negotiate a seniority list with the company that does not have the "disadvantages plaintiffs fear".

What they were saying is the West might be happy enough to not sue usapa in the future, they did not say usapa was free to negotiate away from the Nic, without fear of being sued. Quite the contrary actually, that is why the company is getting involved.

usapa obviously does not know what the 9th said, or they are lying in their communication.

Either that or the company lawyers misunderstand what the 9th said, but being as the company's interpretation goes along the same lines as everyone else's, I would have to think that it is usapa that can't read.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK "WEST FRAGMENTATION" IT MIGHT BE COMING TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU! MM!

 

[PullUp]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK "WEST FRAGMENTATION" IT MIGHT BE COMING TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU! MM!

tell us more.

 

[nic4us]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK "WEST FRAGMENTATION" IT MIGHT BE COMING TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU! MM!

Maybe, but for now all we know is that the Addington sequel is in theatres now.

Great plot, but the villain's character is hard to believe and grossly underdeveloped. I mean c'mon, even Prater had to ask "what kind of union is formed to hurt those it has to represent"?

Look for RETURN OF THE NICOLAU, coming this Christmas.

 

[nic4us]

tell us more.

There is no more.

Earlier in the thread MM was trying to make some crypic connection between a vp of communication, the West pilot group, Marty Harper, Polsinelli-Shughart and judge Wake. As if there were some kind of underlying conspiracy here to get local Phoenix lawyers work. Now it is veiled speculation of fragmentation.

Kirby just addressed this in th last CLT visit with the f/a's. It is still on wings for your viewing pleasure. If you do not have access, the cliff notes are, it ain't going to happen. The read between the lines is, it sure ain't going to happen in any way that MM would envision it.

 

[Captain Underpants]

That is correct, the 9th said that usapa might actually negotiate a seniority list with the company that does not have the "disadvantages plaintiffs fear".

AOL attorney Marty Harper has now publicly abandoned the Nic award. He understands the 9th ruling that USAPA has a right to find reasonable alternatives to the Nic consistent with their DFR. Mr. Harper is now seeking to negotiate "real fences" with USAPA to protect West pilots from any potential inequities.

This has essentially been USAPA's position from the beginning echoing Steve Bradford’s early statements that "strong fences make good neighbors".

Marty's capitulation reminds me of Saddam Hussein's statement when he was pulled out of the rat hole....."I am the President of Iraq and I want to negotiate"......

underpants

From a news report filed on thestreet.com:

".....In its filing, the carrier seeks three court findings -- that a contract without the Nicolau ruling would not violate labor law, that a contract with the Nicolau ruling would not violate labor law, and that a contract without the Nicolau ruling would not subject the carrier to liability. Harper said he would oppose the first and third requests. In those request, he said, the airline "is litigating a bad faith bargaining position against USAPA, saying it's a violation of the Railway Labor Act for USAPA not to consider all reasonable alternatives.

"Whatever comes out has to be fair to both side," Harper said. He suggested that perhaps USAPA can devise "fences," or protections that entitle pilot groups to retain their existing flying but said that so far, USAPA "has not come up with fences that would be real."
Meanwhile, in an e-mail to its members late Monday, USAPA said it would oppose the airline's requests. "The company is seeking immunity," the union said. "The suit appears calculated to provide an excuse to hold up progress in bargaining."

USAPA's view is that the appeals court ruling clearly enables a contract agreement that does not include the Nicolau award, as long as that contract provides a seniority agreement that is fair to the west pilots. As a result, the union believes it does not need a second court's approval to negotiate such a contract.

The appeals court ruling also clearly anticipates that west pilots would file a suit after a contract agreement is reached. Union leaders believe they can structure a contract with fences that would prevent west pilots' routes from being flown by east pilots, and that over time many west pilots would replace retiring east pilots on the most desirable international flights."

 

[cleardirect]

AOL attorney Marty Harper has now publicly abandoned the Nic award. He understands the 9th ruling that USAPA has a right to find reasonable alternatives to the Nic consistent with their DFR. Mr. Harper is now seeking to negotiate "real fences" with USAPA to protect West pilots from any potential inequities.

This has essentially been USAPA's position from the beginning echoing Steve Bradford’s early statements that "strong fences make good neighbors".

Marty's capitulation reminds me of Saddam Hussein's statement when he was pulled out of the rat hole....."I am the President of Iraq and I want to negotiate"......

underpants

From a news report filed on thestreet.com:

".....In its filing, the carrier seeks three court findings -- that a contract without the Nicolau ruling would not violate labor law, that a contract with the Nicolau ruling would not violate labor law, and that a contract without the Nicolau ruling would not subject the carrier to liability. Harper said he would oppose the first and third requests. In those request, he said, the airline "is litigating a bad faith bargaining position against USAPA, saying it's a violation of the Railway Labor Act for USAPA not to consider all reasonable alternatives.

"Whatever comes out has to be fair to both side," Harper said. He suggested that perhaps USAPA can devise "fences," or protections that entitle pilot groups to retain their existing flying but said that so far, USAPA "has not come up with fences that would be real."
Meanwhile, in an e-mail to its members late Monday, USAPA said it would oppose the airline's requests. "The company is seeking immunity," the union said. "The suit appears calculated to provide an excuse to hold up progress in bargaining."

USAPA's view is that the appeals court ruling clearly enables a contract agreement that does not include the Nicolau award, as long as that contract provides a seniority agreement that is fair to the west pilots. As a result, the union believes it does not need a second court's approval to negotiate such a contract.

The appeals court ruling also clearly anticipates that west pilots would file a suit after a contract agreement is reached. Union leaders believe they can structure a contract with fences that would prevent west pilots' routes from being flown by east pilots, and that over time many west pilots would replace retiring east pilots on the most desirable international flights."

A misquote from the usapa pet reporter Ted Reed. Keep swinging one of these days you guys might hit a single.

 

[cleardirect]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK "WEST FRAGMENTATION" IT MIGHT BE COMING TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU! MM!

How long have you been making that prediction? But I hope you guys enjoy Mesa if it happens.

 

[luvthe9]

Maybe, but for now all we know is that the Addington sequel is in theatres now.

Great plot, but the villain's character is hard to believe and grossly underdeveloped. I mean c'mon, even Prater had to ask "what kind of union is formed to hurt those it has to represent"?

Look for RETURN OF THE NICOLAU, coming this Christmas.

Alex "What kind of union is formed to hurt those it has to represent?" "What is ALPA....." you are right! for 1000pts. Massive fleets of RJ-s we call them RJ's even thought they hold 90 seats, and ALPA bought off on it! Gee, a BAC 111 had 79 seats and in 1980 paid an F/O only 70k a yr. first year off probation! Yes, the answer is your ALPA. The USAirways ALPA that constantly bedded down with the company, getting great deals. Loss of pension, then the million dollar target, that gone! Then the scope going, LOA 93, pay based on cabin door closure, now moving to cargo doors, wait, now inertial wheel movement! Can it get better?Yes! We will sign off on an F/O pay rate on the 190 that is LOWER than the flight attendants in the back! Now that is some collaboration. The company loved your ALPA so much they held the retirement party for the PHL F/O rep at their expense at the ENVOY Lounge in PHL! Even Ed Bular was there. Why not? Tosi only delivered the keys to the company! Then ALPA takes over the PHL domicile, and plants their reps in charge. But wait! It was just about the NIC!

 

[luvthe9]

A misquote from the usapa pet reporter Ted Reed. Keep swinging one of these days you guys might hit a single.

This is dead on. Everybody is getting to the heart of the matter now. Even the company is pressing for the final answer after you guys spin it again and again. We appreciated your Wake trial and the 9th clarification. It was abundantly clear except to the west guys in the bunker. They most likely will never get it. Anyway, the world is going on without you. What do you say, what do you do when the company gets the clear answer that the Nic does not have to be in it? The answer is seniority is negotiable. It might not be DOH. It doesn't have to be. It certainly does not have to be the Nic either.