US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Captain Underpants]

A misquote from the usapa pet reporter Ted Reed. Keep swinging one of these days you guys might hit a single.

Yes that must be it. Marty Harper could not have said that.... the reporter must have got the quote wrong.

If you don't like the message then shoot the messenger. Just make sure you aim at Marty and not Ted.

underpants

 

[cleardirect]

This is dead on. Everybody is getting to the heart of the matter now. Even the company is pressing for the final answer after you guys spin it again and again. We appreciated your Wake trial and the 9th clarification. It was abundantly clear except to the west guys in the bunker. They most likely will never get it. Anyway, the world is going on without you. What do you say, what do you do when the company gets the clear answer that the Nic does not have to be in it? The answer is seniority is negotiable. It might not be DOH. It doesn't have to be. It certainly does not have to be the Nic either.

This is a special update from Leonidas, LLC.

This morning, Ted Reed published an article concerning the filing by US Airways in Federal District Court seeking declaratory judgment. In this article, Reed quotes West attorney Mr. Marty Harper as saying:

"Whatever comes out has to be fair to both side," Harper said. He suggested that perhaps USAPA can devise "fences," or protections that entitle pilot groups to retain their existing flying but said that so far, USAPA "has not come up with fences that would be real."

This quote is completely inaccurate. West pilots and West attorneys in no way support or endorse any change to the Nicolau Arbitration. West attorneys have been consistent in stating in court filings and to the press that there will be no “compromise” on an arbitrated seniority list which itself is already a compromise.

Sincerely,


Leonidas, LLC

Could it be that Ted got it wrong? Let's see if Marty EVER talks to Ted again.

 

[luvthe9]

Could it be that Ted got it wrong? Let's see if Marty EVER talks to Ted again.

Actually, Ted got it right. Marty and company are so far off reality that everyone gets it but them. Truth be known, Marty DOES get it! $$$$$$$$ That, is the bottom line. Keep funding it. The wives have got to be asking when this thing is going to stop. After all, the kids need to go to college.......

 

[nic4us]

Yes that must be it. Marty Harper could not have said that.... the reporter must have got the quote wrong.

If you don't like the message then shoot the messenger. Just make sure you aim at Marty and not Ted.

underpants

Underpants,

Did it occur to you that Mr. Harper might have been saying, come up with some kind of reasonable fence in a Nic contract, and the West may not put forth the effort to sue usapa again?

In any event, Mr. Reed may be doing a retraction on that statement.

 

[cleardirect]

Actually, Ted got it right. Marty and company are so far off reality that everyone gets it but them. Truth be known, Marty DOES get it! $$$$$$$$ That, is the bottom line. Keep funding it. The wives have got to be asking when this thing is going to stop. After all, the kids need to go to college.......

So through the entire trial. All of the court documents. An appeal to the ninth and an appeal to the SCOTUS Marty has said the same thing. NO deal Nicolau is the list. But Ted Reed the pet reporter somehow gets Marty to change his position and breaks the news on a blog. The other possibility is Ted got it wrong.


I would guess the same conversation is going on in east households. Except who is responsible for getting that better contract?

East pilots, east union, east NAC. The west is along for the ride.

 

[Freighterguynow]

What I find offensive is your comparing a trinket I will gladly give away, to military decoration, no matter how gaudily it is displayed in your picture.

I bet you're a real blast at parties.

 

[nic4us]

Actually, Ted got it right. Marty and company are so far off reality that everyone gets it but them.

Yeah, thats the conclusion to draw here. The biased reporter who fabricates stories so the "union" can use them as hearsay evidence for an emergency appeal to the 9th regarding an immediate impending merger with UAL which requires their action, is the one to believe.

Mr Harper was not the only lawyer to tell you folks you would not get DOH.

I think a little recap is in order.

Your merger attorney=no DOH for you.
Freund=no DOH for you
Nicolau=no DOH for you
Wake=no DOH for you
Harper=no DOH for you
Bybee=no DOH for you
Tashima=you better come up with something good and not piss off the West, otherwise, no DOH for you.
Graber=whatever Tashima said.
Siegel=no DOH for you, and that does not violate the RLA.
Johnson=no DOH for you, unless I can get the courts to release the company from the liability that the "union" is about to bring on itself by seeking it, and even then I am not saying whether or not you will get it because the company is not picking sides in the no DOH for you argument.

Seham=you guys are a bunch of crew meals
Baptiste and Wilder=I cannot believe you guys let Seham call you crew meals!

And all of this after Parker and Lakefield said= no DOH for you!

Yeah, its all of these folks that are "so far off reality".

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

How long have you been making that prediction? But I hope you guys enjoy Mesa if it happens.

That's funny ! MM!

 

[Captain Underpants]

Could it be that Ted got it wrong? Let's see if Marty EVER talks to Ted again.

Marty is trying to help the West pilots with his statements. Nic or nothing is just not an intelligent position. He knows in light of the 9th's ruling there is no chance for an unmodified Nic contract. Marty is correct. Fences are an obvious and easy solution. I also agree with Marty that the solution has to be fair to both sides which obviously eliminates the Nic as an option.

The Addington class representitives may have legal standing to negotiate for the West pilots class. Harper knows this is the last chance to negotiate a compromise settlement of the dispute and try to get the best deal possible for the West pilots. Marty is publicly begging the West pilots to start thinking about what protections they would need in a seniority integration that would be fair to both sides. It would a mistake to shut him down with a no compromise position. Marty is on your side so try listening to what he is trying to tell you.

The West tried Nic or nothing at Wye river. Will they try Nic or nothing at Salt river too?

underpants

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yeah, thats the conclusion to draw here. The biased reporter who fabricates stories so the "union" can use them as hearsay evidence for an emergency appeal to the 9th regarding an immediate impending merger with UAL which requires their action, is the one to believe.

Mr Harper was not the only lawyer to tell you folks you would not get DOH.

I think a little recap is in order.

Your merger attorney=no DOH for you.
Freund=no DOH for you
Nicolau=no DOH for you
Wake=no DOH for you
Harper=no DOH for you
Bybee=no DOH for you
Tashima=you better come up with something good and not piss off the West, otherwise, no DOH for you.
Graber=whatever Tashima said.
Siegel=no DOH for you, and that does not violate the RLA.
Johnson=no DOH for you, unless I can get the courts to release the company from the liability that the "union" is about to bring on itself by seeking it, and even then I am not saying whether or not you will get it because the company is not picking sides in the no DOH for you argument.

Seham=you guys are a bunch of crew meals
Baptiste and Wilder=I cannot believe you guys let Seham call you crew meals!

And all of this after Parker and Lakefield said= no DOH for you!

Yeah, its all of these folks that are "so far off reality".

CHECK PLEEZ, 2 MILL+ AND THE WEST IS SPUN OFF TO WHO? MM!

 

[cleardirect]

Marty is trying to help the West pilots with his statements. Nic or nothing is just not an intelligent position. He knows in light of the 9th's ruling there is no chance for an unmodified Nic contract. Marty is correct. Fences are an obvious and easy solution. I also agree with Marty that the solution has to be fair to both sides which obviously eliminates the Nic as an option.

The Addington class representitives may have legal standing to negotiate for the West pilots class. Harper knows this is the last chance to negotiate a compromise settlement of the dispute and try to get the best deal possible for the West pilots. Marty is publicly begging the West pilots to start thinking about what protections they would need in a seniority integration that would be fair to both sides. It would a mistake to shut him down with a no compromise position. Marty is on your side so try listening to what he is trying to tell you.

The West tried Nic or nothing at Wye river. Will they try Nic or nothing at Salt river too?

underpants

Quite the little dramatic play your have going on in your head.

The position is and will be the Nicolau. No compromise.....

Marty was misquoted that is all.

I was at the meeting where Marty said there is no one to negotiate with from the west. He knows no way to even get that done if we wanted.

Marty was misquoted by Ted "the pet" Reed nothing more.

 

[767jetz]

Company accepted Nicolau list.

I'll take that as an admission that my statement was correct and you were wrong. I never said anything about implemented, did I?

They may not be able to implement the list without a contract. But they also can't accept anything but the Nic due to the transition agreement. Which means no contract, which means no DOH, which means more stalemate and more LOA93. Pretty much a catch 22 for you guys until the judge rules on this.

 

[767jetz]

The eastie die hards like hate, luvthe9, black swan et.al can spin this latest development into all the "good news" they want but the fact is USAPA has never been in more trouble.
this is the endgame. USAPA is doomed and they know it.

And spin they are. In high gear no less.

 

[Art at ISP]

OK, Here's another thought and hypothetical.....

What if you returned to the negotiating table, and by some MIRACLE, you came up with a contract which included an acceptable compromise to NIC and DOH? A contract which in addition to addressing that issue to the satisfaction of a MAJORITY of pilots, provided you with improved work rules and significant raises??
Could you not pass that and avoid a DFR suit? Are both sides SO stuck on their line in the sand that 5 years later, after all the chest thumping and rhetoric from both sides, NO ONE can realize it's in EVERYONE's best interest to settle this by compromise?

At the end of the day, you're all doing yourselves a disservice in my humble uninformed opinion. You are enriching a company who doesn't deserve such good fortune, and this emboldens them to think that their despicable behavior toward, you, other employees and customers is acceptable.

With ALL DUE RESPECT, my friends, is it IMPOSSIBLE to arrive at a solution which would be SOMEWHAT acceptable for both sides????

I wish you ALL the very best, but perhaps the time has come to fix this once and for all...you folks are supposed to be professionals, but no offense, you'd never know it by reading this thread...

Back to my corner....

 

[PullUp]

OK, Here's another thought and hypothetical.....

What if you returned to the negotiating table, and by some MIRACLE, you came up with a contract which included an acceptable compromise to NIC and DOH? A contract which in addition to addressing that issue to the satisfaction of a MAJORITY of pilots, provided you with improved work rules and significant raises??
Could you not pass that and avoid a DFR suit? Are both sides SO stuck on their line in the sand that 5 years later, after all the chest thumping and rhetoric from both sides, NO ONE can realize it's in EVERYONE's best interest to settle this by compromise?

At the end of the day, you're all doing yourselves a disservice in my humble uninformed opinion. You are enriching a company who doesn't deserve such good fortune, and this emboldens them to think that their despicable behavior toward, you, other employees and customers is acceptable.

With ALL DUE RESPECT, my friends, is it IMPOSSIBLE to arrive at a solution which would be SOMEWHAT acceptable for both sides????

I wish you ALL the very best, but perhaps the time has come to fix this once and for all...you folks are supposed to be professionals, but no offense, you'd never know it by reading this thread...

Back to my corner....

First, there is no 'west' to negotiate with. Mr. Addington et al will sue everyone involved no matter what if the NIC isn't used. USAPA's constitution and bylaws specify DOH as the method of integration.
So, there it is.
Have a great day.