US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

WE ALL GOT HAMMERED BY THIS COMPANY. I WANT NOTHING BUT THE BEST FOR EVERY ONE ON THIS PROPERTY, EVERYONE.EVERYONE DESERVES TO HAVE DECENT COMPENSATION AND EQUAL TREATMENT. GOD HELP ALL OF US. GOOD NIGHT

 

[luvthe9]

[quote nam
On March 2, 2003, the bankruptcy court entered an order finding that US Airways had demonstrated the financial requirements necessary for a distress termination. The court therefore permitted US Airways to terminate the pension plan, subject to a determination that doing so would not violate the collective bargaining agreement. US Airways then resolved the collective bargaining agreement issue on March 21, 2003, when it reached an agreement with ALPA to terminate the pension plan effective on March 31 and to replace it with a new pension plan for its active and other non-retired pilots.

Then, on M



THANK YOU. READ THIS. "SO WOULD NOT VIOLATE THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT........" THE COMPANY HAD TO AGREE TO A FOLLOW UP PLAN TO SATISFY THE CBA WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE MEC. MITCHELL WOULD NOT TAKE IT. HE SAID IT HERE. READ IT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT. KEY WORDS "REACHED AN AGREEMENT WITH ALPA. REPEAT- REACHED AND AGREEMENT WITH ALPA. REPEAT - REACHED AN AGREEMENT WITH ALPA THE FOLLOW UP PLAN - VOTED IN BY THE MEC WITHOUT MEMBERSHIP RATIFICATION - REPEAT WITHOUT MEMBERSHIP RATIFICATION MITCHELL DID NOT TAKE IT REPEAT MITCHELL DID NOT TAKE IT REPEAT MITCHELL DID NOT TAKE IT HE SAID THE COMPANY HAD TO REACH AN AGREEMENT WITH ALPA...............SET MATCH LOVE OR WHATEVER... AND, AND AND "REPLACE IT WITH A NEW PENSION PLAN FOR ITS ACTIVE AND OTHER NON RETIRED PILOTS" Repeat, REPLACE IT WITH A NEW PENSION PLAN FOR ITS ACTIVE AND OTHER NON RETIRED PILOTS" summary of above, for the dense. Judge Mitchell would not, would not terminate the pension. Stated ONLY that the company satisfied the tenets to distress terminate. He said the company HAD to negotiate with ALPA to come up with a FOLLOW UP PLAN, which they did, and APPROVE, hence the vote by the MEC (only) to terminate. Pay close attention WESTIES, this is a BIG reason ALPA got dumped. We did not , the general pilot population, get to vote on this. This is a HUGE reason why ALPA was shown the door. Not the NIC like you insist. WE WANTED TO DESTROY ALPA AFTER THIS! And we did!

 

[Dog Wonder]

Silence was golden.

Not talking to you luvthe9.

 

[cleardirect]

Did you think, for once, maybe he APPROVED it after, after, after, after, AGAIN after the company came up with a FOLLOW UP PLAN, and the MEC APPROVED IT WITH THEIR VOTE????THAT, is how it went down, not like you say. He approved it AFTER THE PILOTS WERE SATISFIED WITH A FOLLOW UP PLAN THAT THE MEC VOTED YES ON. Is that how yours was taken? No.

It seems earlier today you said that one man gave away your pension. Now you say it was the MEC. Could you please keep your story straight it is getting confusing trying to follow the falsehoods.

This shows your ingnorance and lack of knowledge. One pilot by the name of Bill Pollock gave our pension away at about 2:00 in the morning, not one USAir pilot had a say in it. That will never happen again and by the way that's why most of us wanted ALPA tossed out the Nic was icing on the cake.!!

 

[luvthe9]

Gee you still dont believe it and I posted what he said as reported by the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Reporter Frank Reeves.



Link

GAME, SET and MATCH!

Read this one carefully. Carefully. Look what Mitchell said they had to do.

 

[luvthe9]

Remember, Rust never sleeps..............Should have done Iron level. That is where we are, and always will be. We will conquerer all...............

 

[LSS]

Are you that stupid?

The company filed a motion, the judge approved it, the pension was terminated.

Plain and simple.

And the Court/Judge doesnt take anything, he approves or rejects motions filed by any party privy to the Bankruptcy case.

Per the law, he has to rule on the motion filed, he approved it, therefore it was terminated.

FACT!

How many times do I have to post the same thing before you get it?

700UW... not so fast...

I attended every moment of the four day BK Court hearing for the pilots plan termination in January/February 2002. Here’s what went down, before, during and after.

Unlike every other DB plan termination in recent history, wherein the BK Court judges had the jurisdiction to terminate the DB plans of their respective corporate Chapter 11 cases, Judge Mitchell NEVER had the authority nor did he terminate the pilots DB plan. He never directed anyone that the DB PLAN MUST TERMINATED. The PBGC, ATSB and every other entity (other than the creditors) all took a neutral position only stating that the pension funding issue had to be resolved. During his oral ruling (followed by his written ruling), he opined that US Airways did meet the financial criteria for a distress termination however, this matter would have to be resolved by negotiations between the company and ALPA under the CBA and RLA.

The reason why Judge Mitchell COULD NOT terminate the DB plan (in BK 1) was because in Restructuring Agreement I (July 2002) the company agreed if the pilots ratified their concessionary proposal, they would not file 1113 nor 1114 motions (the 1113 motion would give a BK Judge the ability to shred the existing CBA; and 1114 motion permitting a BK Judge to shred any retirement or health benefits contained therein). Of course, US Air said these huge concessions by the pilot group were necessary to stave off Bankruptcy… ALPA’s FUD machine went into overdrive… and the pilots ratified this concessionary LOA in late July 2002 (which by the way was the last LOA the pilots were allowed to vote on including our DB plan give away until a radical PHL and PIT LEC supported resolution was passed, requiring pilot ratification for all changes in pay, working conditions, health, insurance, and retirement benefits). The ink was barely dry on Restructuring 1 when US Airways filed for Bankruptcy on August 11, 2002.

Fast forward to November/December 2002 regarding our DB Plan: ALPA had a fiduciary responsibility, duty and right under LOA 9 to audit and oversee the DB plan at any and all times. The February 20, 2002 Code-A-Phone reported the R&I Committee Chair advised the MEC that the DB Plan was only 64% funded... but they obtained that information from the company... not from doing an independent audit... and what is even more telling about ALPA's malfeasance is that the SAR for the period ending 12/31/2002 filed by US Air with the DOL stated that the plan was "funded to minimum ERISA standards"... That means at least 80%. Also, ALPA led everyone to believe that in Restructuring II, (December 2002) the proposed concessions including those afecting the retirement plan were necessary to preserve the DB plan, even though ALPA never again proffered anything to the pilot group regarding the plan's supposed underfunding after the Feb 2002 Code-A-Phone until that time. It was then the MEC ratified Restructuring II and capped the accrual rate and reduced the percentage of accrual beyond a certain point, again falsely leading the pilots to believe it would save their plan.

In January 2003 less than 30 days after US Airways filed their 2002 SAR stating that the plan was funded to minimum ERISA standards, U filed for a distress termination of the DB plan, their way to effrectively back door their agreement to not seek pilot contract concessions in the bankruptcy court. The pilots were furious about this proposed termination, with most willing to accept freezing of the plan as opposed to termination. By the time they got around to it in late February, the MEC stated that there wasn't enough time to initiate a freeze... If in fact the plan was so poorly funded, why wasn't ALPA at the company's door in early 2002 doing everything they could to save the plan, even freezing it if necessary?

If the plan was so severely underfunded in 2002 and 2003, why did the company’s actuary, Mr. Dungan of Towers Perrin state under oath that it would require somewhere in the vicinity of $56 mil to fund the plan for 2003… only having to later recant that testimony after the Soaring Eagles and another group hired an actuary that testified via teleconference from San Francisco, that Towers Perrin and the Company had used the absolute worst case scenario conceivable to make the plan look severely underfunded. In Mr. Dungan’s later testimony he recanted his earlier testimony, stating only $24 mil was required to fund the plan for 2003 not $56 mil. Had ALPA done their due diligence and upheld their fiduciary responsibility to their pilots… they would have paid for an outside actuary to evaluate the formulas being used by the company’s actuary and refute what the company and their actuary were claiming.

While there undoubtedly would have been contributions necessary in later years, the stock market had improved dramatically by late 2003 therefore, the contributions required to maintain the plan would have been far less than what ALPA, in concert with US Air, led everyone to believe, including Judge Mitchell. Actually, if everyone hadn’t been so hell-bent on terminating our plan, Judge Mitchell could have maintained oversight of the plan, until it was definitely known whether the plan had to be terminated, because most of what was testified to was pure speculation and projections into the future. Had ALPA argued for this and given proof to the BK court as to the results of an independent audit, we may have been able to preserve the plan. If the plan had been frozen as opposed to terminated, the plan could have been reinstated at a later date.

The whole thing was a sham on the pilots, fostered by ALPA National... they were worried U would go away and they'd lose their dues... (but wouldn't conduct an audit to confirm or disprove what the company was saying)... To preserve their dues flow from U pilots... they evidently felt… screw the pilots and their DB plan. As was stated so many times by the ALPA shills… “We will live to fight another day”… the problem is for a very long time, ALPA has only been a paper tiger, never seeing a concession they didn’t like. There was never any fighting against the company… only a race to see how much they could give away. There is a whole lot more to this ugly matter... but it irks me no end to see the comments from some people who think they know the facts (particularly those on the outside), when they know very little or nothing at all...

Bottom Line: The termination of our DB plan through ALPA’s malfeasance and approval with no vote allowed by the pilots, was the true and greatest impetus for ALPA's ultimate removal...

 

[snapthis]

Well, I don't care what you are any other pilot (east or west) think. My vote was a minority vote everytime. didn't vote for Obama either. Won't take any responsibility for his actions either. I only know I can live with myself and my "responsible" actions.

Wow! Imagine that, a conservative pops out of this message board of Left Coast Liberals. That's refreshing.

 

[Barrister]

You were wrong in saying it wasnt terminated in BK I and you were wrong saying the Judge didnt approve the termination.

The court never takes it, they approve the motions and it was terminated.

Better go see a lawyer cause you have no idea of what you talk about.

If it wasnt terminated then why did the PBGC take over the pension, why are the checks mailed by them and why are the administering the plan?

I proved my case over and over I am done before the mods suspend us both.

Go read the all the links posted.

Mitchell did not terminate the pension, he only found that the company would not
emerge from BR if the pension had to be funded BASED ON THE INFORMATION
BEFORE HIM. HE SPECIFICALLY RULED THAT HE DID not HAVE THE POWER TO
TERMINATE. THEN THE COMPANY SAID to the weaklings in ALPA do you want a job
or do you want a pension. ALPA is gone because of this......and the amazing thing
is NO ONE verified the companies numbers. We were toast.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Richard]

Folks, we have just set a new record for deleted posts on one thread, and it is not a record we are happy about......

The only reason we have not closed this thread altogether is that the majority of the violations were caused by two posters, and that has been dealt with.

The next personal attack, insult or remark about an individual poster will get that person a 21 day suspension and INDEFINITE moderator preview thereafter.

The rules of the board exist to keep this board civilized and to allow the exchange of IDEAS and OPINIONS without attacking each other individually. We just will not permit that.

If it continues, we will consider closing this thread for a few days to let you all cool off.....but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Time to grow up and act like adults everyone.......

 

[SparrowHawk]

Mitchell did not terminate the pension, he only found that the company would not
emerge from BR if the pension had to be funded BASED ON THE INFORMATION
BEFORE HIM. HE SPECIFICALLY RULED THAT HE DID not HAVE THE POWER TO
TERMINATE. THEN THE COMPANY SAID to the weaklings in ALPA do you want a job
or do you want a pension. ALPA is gone because of this......and the amazing thing
is NO ONE verified the companies numbers. We were toast.

NICDOA
NPJB

Indeed you were toast at that point in time. You didn't need independent review of the financials, US Airways was DONE! Finished! KAPUT without the VOTE to terminate. All you had to do was look at the unfunded obligation and the last 10K to see that US was about to be another casualty.

As a customer/observer I'm no fan of ALPA but what would have had them do? You can't polish a turd. Terminating the pension gave about 30,000 people 7 years of wiggle room to get their personal finances in order and change careers if need be.

So now we have a group split over seniority issues and IMO there is no settlement to be reached until about the first 700 on the current or Nic list retire or quit. So the question who stands to win, who stands to lose

 

[snapthis]

Remember, Rust never sleeps..............Should have done Iron level. That is where we are, and always will be. We will conquerer all...............

Obiously a tribute to the hard working working folks of the Keystone state. I come from the Sooner state, otherwise known as fly-over country.

Folks like me welcome the challenge. This is far from over. I'm tired of talking about Nic, let's have that DOH contract so we can get it on. I'm ready to rumble!

DOHDOA

 

[vsi0]

I'm tired of talking about Nic, let's have that DOH contract so we can get it on. I'm ready to rumble!

Arguably the most intelligent post made on this subject!

 

[exB717Flyer]

DFR-II
Do you feel lucky?

 

[nycbusdriver]

DFR-II
Do you feel lucky?

Yes. Exceedingly so!