US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[RSVP767]

Parker said the company would let the pilots work out pilot seniority, he did not say he would expose the company to litigation they have a good chance of losing, to support the usapian theory of how to take from your fellow employee. Ever notice how he answeres these questions with the fundamental understanding that there are two sides in the arguement, not just the one sided usapian premise of they are the only ones that count, and can cram down anything they wish in a contract? Parker knows the West is in the right here, and is waiting for east "acceptance", not the other way around.

Reconcile what you say above with what Kirby said in a 'Crew News' visit some time ago. I'm sorry I do not have the exact quote (and the said session in no longer available on Wings) but Kirby said, in effect, 'that the NIC was not going to work here'. And I believe this was said after Parker 'accepted' the NIC.

I would say Parker is waiting for another group to come to terms with "acceptance".

 

[nic4us]

Reconcile what you say above with what Kirby said in a 'Crew News' visit some time ago. I'm sorry I do not have the exact quote (and the said session in no longer available on Wings) but Kirby said, in effect, 'that the NIC was not going to work here'. And I believe this was said after Parker 'accepted' the NIC.

I would say Parker is waiting for another group to come to terms with "acceptance".

Yes, I remember Kirby's talk in CLT, when he was pandering to an east crowd. It did happen after the company accepted the Nic, but prior to usapa's election. Pretty much infuriated me that he used the east's comparison of a "lotto ticket", and said the West would have to compromise,if we wanted to keep ALPA. Well, that question was answered, ALPA is gone, no matter what the West wants. Also, he was deflecting the fact that it was the company that would have to compromise, and get the east to accept the Nic, once ALPA was gone.

Bottom line. It does not matter who they are waiting for to "accept" the outcome. If that outcome is something other than the Nic, the company gets sued, along with usapa. Seham may not care, but Brengle is not as complacent about having Polsinelli going after the company, and for now the company is probably very content to have the continued stall in negotiations.

 

[cleardirect]

Reconcile what you say above with what Kirby said in a 'Crew News' visit some time ago. I'm sorry I do not have the exact quote (and the said session in no longer available on Wings) but Kirby said, in effect, 'that the NIC was not going to work here'. And I believe this was said after Parker 'accepted' the NIC.

I would say Parker is waiting for another group to come to terms with "acceptance".

Well an in-exact quote from a source that can not be confirmed by someone that has a bias in repeating it. I guess that settles the issue. If you would put that statement in some context you might help your case.

BTW if Parker really said the list was not going to work why would or did he accept it? Why not say it does not meet the company requirements and reject it?

Do you also have some unavailable statement from Parker or Kirby saying that DOH will work?

On the other side we have a letter from parker signed stateing that if meets the company requirements and he accepts the Nicolau list. We also have a letter from Parker a Lakefield saying the they want a fair integration and using DOH is not fair. We have under oath Heminway stating the Nicolau list is the only list the company will use.

Do you really believe anything said in a crew news?

 

[Pi brat]

BTW if Parker really said the list was not going to work why would or did he accept it? Why not say it does not meet the company requirements and reject it?

The Nic did meet the company requirements and I think that by accepting it he met his part of the bargain. The big questions is will he insist on it being implemented? Big difference. IMHO if he can extract something from USAPA for it and his lawyers say they are shielded well enough in a suit, he will allow the NIC to be dumped.

 

[cleardirect]

The Nic did meet the company requirements and I think that by accepting it he met his part of the bargain. The big questions is will he insist on it being implemented? Big difference. IMHO if he can extract something from USAPA for it and his lawyers say they are shielded well enough in a suit, he will allow the NIC to be dumped.

Well I think that we are making some progress now. You have accepted the fact that Parker will not just give you DOH. That he is going to make you pay for it and dearly. So no your seniority is not for sale you will have to buy it with a contract. How would usapa possibly shield the company from a law suit?

This is what the west has been trying to tell you.

The east has been under the impression or at least telling us that the company does not care what the list looks like. They will just accept whatever usapa pushed across the table. I am glad to see the beginning of understanding. Congratulations for being one of the first.

 

[PullUp]

Well I think that we are making some progress now. You have accepted the fact that Parker will not just give you DOH. That he is going to make you pay for it and dearly. So no your seniority is not for sale you will have to buy it with a contract. How would usapa possibly shield the company from a law suit?

This is what the west has been trying to tell you.

The east has been under the impression or at least telling us that the company does not care what the list looks like. They will just accept whatever usapa pushed across the table. I am glad to see the beginning of understanding. Congratulations for being one of the first.

Problem is: Nic won't pass ratification. You know it, I know it, and Parker knows it. Choice is separate ops or a contract without the Nic. Payraises or Nic? Better reserve/sick/vacation/rigs or Nic?
Nic is a non-starter. The big question is: how much does Parker need combined ops?
Have a nice day

 

[cleardirect]

Problem is: Nic won't pass ratification. You know it, I know it, and Parker knows it. Choice is separate ops or a contract without the Nic. Payraises or Nic? Better reserve/sick/vacation/rigs or Nic?
Nic is a non-starter. The big question is: how much does Parker need combined ops?
Have a nice day

Show me the vote that a new contract with Nicolau will not pass. Until we have a vote it is just opinion. I don't know that a Nicolau contract will not pass. Parker does not know that, no one knows that.

Sorry you will forgive me if I don't blindly trust the word of east pilots anymore.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Show me the vote that a new contract with Nicolau will not pass. Until we have a vote it is just opinion. I don't know that a Nicolau contract will not pass. Parker does not know that, no one knows that.

Sorry you will forgive me if I don't blindly trust the word of east pilots anymore.

How do you know that a DOH based contract will not get a majority of PHX votes? Until we have a vote it is just opinion. I don't know that a DOH contract will not pass......etc, etc.

More importantly, we will probably vote on the latter before we ever vote on the former.

 

[KTM300]

Show me the vote that a new contract with Nicolau will not pass. Until we have a vote it is just opinion. I don't know that a Nicolau contract will not pass. Parker does not know that, no one knows that.

Sorry you will forgive me if I don't blindly trust the word of east pilots anymore.

I believe constitutionally, USAPA not only will not but can not present anything other than a mandated DOH contract with C&R's. Even if you CD believe something else. Besides, if the MC or NC use Nic, a small number of west USAirways pilots will be happy, namely you, N4U, 767jets(don't know if he works for USAirways or not) and a few more. However a far greater number of pilots will undoubtedly never let it happen.

 

[Pi brat]

Well I think that we are making some progress now. You have accepted the fact that Parker will not just give you DOH. That he is going to make you pay for it and dearly. So no your seniority is not for sale you will have to buy it with a contract. How would usapa possibly shield the company from a law suit?

This is what the west has been trying to tell you.

The east has been under the impression or at least telling us that the company does not care what the list looks like. They will just accept whatever usapa pushed across the table. I am glad to see the beginning of understanding. Congratulations for being one of the first.

Making progress...thanks Dad. Whatever.

I don't think Doug Parker would give you the lint out of his pocket for free. I seriously doubt that Doug cares one way or another how the list turns out, he will just use it or any rift to maximize return for the company...........his job. Who said anything about USAPA shielding the company? I seriously doubt the company would look to USAPA to shield them from anything and will look to it's in house counsel.

Wasn't the west pilots that said "Doug will take care of us"?

 

[Phoenix]

Actually the only entity you have to blame is yourselves.

You voted for every round of concessions and voted to approve them.

You would think grown men and women would accept responsibility for their actions. You the membership were ALPA.

And you elected the leadership who gave away your pension.

Obviously we didn't vote on everything. But the one good thing I can say about ALPA is that it never told us we were confused about a concessionary vote we rejected and forced us to vote again until we accepted it. Rather than voting twice about the same thing they just did the voting for us.

Give it a rest bro. Put away the axe. Go see a move, get a fishing pole, see a doc with a comfortable leather couch. Breath out. Breath in. Breath out.

 

[700UW]

Would you like to be re-educated on why we had to revote the first concessionary package in the first bankruptcy?

And now you a life coach besides a pilot?

 

[Phoenix]

Would you like to be re-educated on why we had to revote the first concessionary package in the first bankruptcy?

And now you a life coach besides a pilot?

No. I really don't care why you had to vote a second time. The real issue is that after getting a second chance the vote miraculously showed that you accepted the giveaways. We knew you had it in you.

No, I'm not a life coach. In my spare time I am a blue water commentator and lobbyist. I have this grand plan on how to convince blue water specialists how much smarter I am than they are.. I just haven't found the web forum to do it yet.

 

[cactusboy53]

Problem is: Nic won't pass ratification. You know it, I know it, and Parker knows it. Choice is separate ops or a contract without the Nic. Payraises or Nic? Better reserve/sick/vacation/rigs or Nic?
Nic is a non-starter. The big question is: how much does Parker need combined ops?
Have a nice day

I know no such thing. I'll take that bet for a tall Sam Adams. I'll bet that if the company offers the Delta contract + 1% (like what was perhaps offered recently???) with the Nic, it passes by AT LEAST 51%.

I'll bet the nearly complete TA that our ALPA MC members nearly had complete (90% or better!!!!) with the Spirit wages would pass by 57%.

What do you say? Let's put it up for a vote. I'm game if you are.

 

[jetjok1]

Well said UW. If you boil it all down, it is called taking responsibility for your actions. Looking for scapegoats accomplish nothing.

Well, I don't care what you are any other pilot (east or west) think. My vote was a minority vote everytime. didn't vote for Obama either. Won't take any responsibility for his actions either. I only know I can live with myself and my "responsible" actions.