US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[OTTER574]

THE EAST CLOWN LIST? You know OTTER have a good weekend, we'll take this up later,MM chill aint worth anyone's health , it is what it is, respond soon! MM! MEANWHILE I'LL be brushing up on the clown skills!

Hey sport, I've having a great weekend defending my rights against an illegal list producing/corrupt union called usapa. If you ever get the company to go along with this illegal scheme be sure and smile when you enter the federal court room again, just so we know who you are.

 

[BoeingBoy]

ZANZIBAR!

Tell me MM, was that ever taken off the shelf, dusted off, and used?

Meanwhile, US had it's equivalent (let's call it "OMG, what can we do"), used it in 2002, and it didn't work. So they used another version in 2004 (let's call it the "Hail Mary") but saw quickly that it wouldn't work either. So US then started beating the bushes for a "savior" to come along (let's call that the "Let's unload this mess and bail" plan). Even after finding one, US almost didn't make it to the merger before running out of money.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Tell me MM, was that ever taken off the shelf, dusted off, and used?

Meanwhile, US had it's equivalent (let's call it "OMG, what can we do"), used it in 2002, and it didn't work. So they used another version in 2004 (let's call it the "Hail Mary") but saw quickly that it wouldn't work either. So US then started beating the bushes for a "savior" to come along (let's call that the "Let's unload this mess and bail" plan). Even after finding one, US almost didn't make it to the merger before running out of money.

Jim

Spoken like a true ALPA, scare 'em 'til you get what you want, insider.

 

[Pi brat]

Even after finding one, US almost didn't make it to the merger before running out of money.

Jim

But it did, didn't it?

 

[Pi brat]

Really and honestly I hope you prevail in your quest of a snapback of 30-40% pay.

The usair east's cost structure got you bankrupt twice..are you trying for a third? While you're at it, I got some pay coming from the PBGC when I turn 60...can usapa help me with this and do you have a good lawyer so I can sue the federal goverment?

BTW..sure do like those US PIT and US BWI terminals that are VACANT because of the collaspe of usair. Ramp control is nice though, especially pit.

Wow. Lose one court case and you sure get angry. Aren't you the one talking about how much you were going to get in damages and I said don't spend them yet? Did you spend them? Is that what's getting to you?

 

[OTTER574]

Wow. Lose one court case and you sure get angry. Aren't you the one talking about how much you were going to get in damages and I said don't spend them yet? Did you spend them? Is that what's getting to you?

BTW we didn't lose anything yet. 2 judges agree with me, 2 judges agree its not ripe until you and your usapa union pilots agree to put doh in a ratified CBA.

Put your faith/usapa/DOH mantra on the 9th circus court of appeals..got news for you. enjoy loa 93 for a long time

 

[BoeingBoy]

But it did, didn't it?

Yes it did, or pretty much. Actually, US was out of money (down to that required to be available by the ATSB) on Sept 1, 2005 - nearly a month before the merger.

Just like you get tired of the "Look how great HP was doing and the great things ahead" comments, I get tired of "Zanzibar" being used to imply that HP was on it's deathbed.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Yes it did, or pretty much. Actually, US was out of money (down to that required to be available by the ATSB) on Sept 1, 2005 - nearly a month before the merger.

Just like you get tired of the "Look how great HP was doing and the great things ahead" comments, I get tired of "Zanzibar" being used to imply that HP was on it's deathbed.

Jim

Horseshoes and hand grenades. It made it. It never shut down as was much predicted. Another airline saw value in it and merged with it, so should have ended the dead or not argument.

I understand your frustration and I believe AWA was a long way form the death bed.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Yes it did, or pretty much. Actually, US was out of money (down to that required to be available by the ATSB) on Sept 1, 2005 - nearly a month before the merger.

Just like you get tired of the "Look how great HP was doing and the great things ahead" comments, I get tired of "Zanzibar" being used to imply that HP was on it's deathbed.

Jim

If your argument were true, why didn't AWA just wait and pick up the pieces? The reason is, it isn't true. Just like all those folks saying that Spirit would be out of business when the pilots went on strike. Didn't happen.

Show me something from Bronner saying that U was being liquidated or anywhere close. Then, I'll believe you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Spoken like a true ALPA, scare 'em 'til you get what you want, insider.

History. You don't really believe that US didn't have two bankruptcies and wasn't out of money by Sept '05 do you?

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

BTW we didn't lose anything yet. 2 judges agree with me, 2 judges agree its not ripe until you and your usapa union pilots agree to put doh in a ratified CBA.

Put your faith/usapa/DOH mantra on the 9th circus court of appeals..got news for you. enjoy loa 93 for a long time

Really? So if they don't agree to the en banc you haven't lost anything? When a DOH is ratified you just pull the old verdict out of the drawer and bam, your done? Hmmm.

Enjoy your position and pay out west too because yours will last as long as mine and I'm really okay with mine.

 

[Pi brat]

Yes it did, or pretty much. Actually, US was out of money (down to that required to be available by the ATSB) on Sept 1, 2005 - nearly a month before the merger.

BTW, wasn't that amount around a billion dollars? And wasn't US close to the ATSB covenant amount several times before and the ATSB lowered it? Of course they might not have lowered it again, but I doubt the company would ask if they were about to close the merger and AWA could bridge the gap. And after the merger the combined financing paid off both ATSB loans and freed the cash from those covenants, and replaces by others? I really don't remember, maybe I'm way off.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

BTW, wasn't that amount around a billion dollars? And wasn't US close to the ATSB covenant amount several times before and the ATSB lowered it? Of course they might not have lowered it again, but I doubt the company would ask if they were about to close the merger and AWA could bridge the gap. And after the merger the combined financing paid off both ATSB loans and freed the cash from those covenants, and replaces by others? I really don't remember, maybe I'm way off.

Good points, but AWA didn't buy US. Several groups of investors did. They ALSO bought AWA and merged the two. The investors included banks, A group that was involved with Air Canada, and another group involved with Air Wisconsin. Since the merger, it has all been refinanced, the ATSB loan was paid off, and ALL of the initial investors made BOATLOADS of cash. Bronner NEVER wanted anything to do with US, he just didn't want TPG and other pre-bk II investors selling or shrinking it, since RSA, his retirement fund, owned the leases on something like 1/3 of U's airplanes.

I'm not saying that Doug or Mr. Lakefield didn't have anything to do with putting it together, but the money came from outside sources.

 

[OTTER574]

Really? So if they don't agree to the en banc you haven't lost anything? When a DOH is ratified you just pull the old verdict out of the drawer and bam, your done? Hmmm.

Enjoy your position and pay out west too because yours will last as long as mine and I'm really okay with mine.

en banc===50/50, scotus always a possibility, dismissed without prejudice? all this keeps it runniing for a long time.

I'm happy with seperate ops.....seems a east mec pulled out of jnc and started this back when? I know, if you don't, review the facts. My pay and work rules are fine..could be better as always. west attrition will get me back in the left seat in about 1-2 years.

Did you receive a letter from ceo doug parker accepting the George Nicolau award dated 12/20/2007 that the company accepted a final and binding award between pilots west and east? I did.

Did you receive a letter from the ceo doug parker accepting anything other lately concerning this? If so, does it follow the TA of which is a contract between lcc and it's pilots? Answer is..NO and you never will.

 

[East Hole]

First, what list was ACCEPTED? I've a letter from doug parker/lcc that was sent 12/20/2007 to all usaiways pilots that lcc ACCEPTED a list called the NIC.

Second, I could give a rats a$$ whos making more money east or west now. How about we compare w2's and who was making more when we were 27?

That does not mean Doug cannot accept a new list later .