US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Premature Adjudication. A classic statement, and how true. The Desert Judge Wake, and Desert Judge 2 Bybee. Both union haters. Don't put your stock in them. Their judicial objectivity is clouded by their hatred for labor. Proven to step on the rights of citizens in their quest to squash labor.

If the pilots that sued their union are not labor just what do you think we are? How are the judges clouded by their hatred for labor when the plaintiffs are labor? What you are saying is that the organization is more important than the members. That the judges were protecting the institution rather than labor.

This was not a union vs. company dispute this was labor vs. the labor union. What citizen rights do you think were being squashed? The only rights being reviewed were those of labor being squashed by the majority.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

As I recall, Seham filed a motion to dismiss with the 9th before the trial started. His reason, ripeness. The appellate denied the motion and let the trial proceed.

The only fundemental difference between before the trial and after is the verdict.

The 9th has done us all a great disservice, and your observations are pretty accurate.

Just think of ALL the money it would have saved you if Wake had ruled correctly initially.

Argue all you want. The case wasn't ripe. You should have listened to Mr. Seham.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If the pilots that sued their union are not labor just what do you think we are? How are the judges clouded by their hatred for labor when the plaintiffs are labor? What you are saying is that the organization is more important than the members. That the judges were protecting the institution rather than labor.

This was not a union vs. company dispute this was labor vs. the labor union. What citizen rights do you think were being squashed? The only rights being reviewed were those of labor being squashed by the majority.

Justice wins again. All I saw was a young group with a lottery ticket (the company president's words, not mine) trying to take jobs from more experienced employees with the help of a misinformed judge.

Now, the REAL union can negotiate a CBA, including a seniority system which really involves seniority.

 

[nic4us]

If the pilots that sued their union are not labor just what do you think we are?

We are the little bug in their ear reminding them daily that they have become something they previously deplored.

 

[cleardirect]

Justice wins again. All I saw was a young group with a lottery ticket (the company president's words, not mine) trying to take jobs from more experienced employees with the help of a misinformed judge.

Now, the REAL union can negotiate a CBA, including a seniority system which really involves seniority.

So you don't consider ALPA to be a REAL union but usapa is?

How much SENIORITY did Monda have when we merged? Was he senior or junior? Is the last guy on the seniority list on reserve senior?

We all hear from you guys how long you have been around this industry but even us rookies know that what you want is a longevity list not a seniority list.

BTW I ran across one of your experienced crew here in PHX the other day. They tried turning down the wrong taxiway before ground had to correct them.

 

[nic4us]

Just think of ALL the money it would have saved you if Wake had ruled correctly initially.

Argue all you want. The case wasn't ripe. You should have listened to Mr. Seham.

Just think of all the money that would have been saved and earned if the east lived up to their contracts instead of coming up with elaborate schemes to renege. I mean c'mon, electing a fake union and all.

No arguement from me, the case was not ripe, unless of course AOL is granted an en banc hearing, then ripeness will still be for a time undetermined.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So you don't consider ALPA to be a REAL union but usapa is?

That's correct. ALPA is a POLITICAL organization, worried more about their cushy jobs and well funded retirements than representing ANYBODY.

How much SENIORITY did Monda have when we merged? Was he senior or junior? Is the last guy on the seniority list on reserve senior?

Don't know, don't care. What position someone bids is their own business. I've bid reserve before, even when I held nice blocks.

We all hear from you guys how long you have been around this industry but even us rookies know that what you want is a longevity list not a seniority list

Longevity would work okay. It's a BETTER, more SENSIBLE method of integration than the NIC. I think that longevity on its own is fair, not arbitrary and meets all requirements to stand up to a DFR from anyone. In fact, straight longevity would mean that fences wouldn't be required.

BTW I ran across one of your experienced crew here in PHX the other day. They tried turning down the wrong taxiway before ground had to correct them.

One thing a little experience and maturity will teach you is to not judge others. I wouldn't take your word for anything like that, especially without knowing both sides of the story.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Longevity would work okay. It's a BETTER, more SENSIBLE method of integration than the NIC. I think that longevity on its own is fair, not arbitrary and meets all requirements to stand up to a DFR from anyone. In fact, straight longevity would mean that fences wouldn't be required.

I also believe LOS is a fair way to integrate, even though I have furlough time. During the negotiations, there were some valid reasons put out for DOH as well, especially since people were furloughed even with a "no furlough" clause in the contract to save other people who were afraid the franchise was at risk.

I still believe we have a chance and hope we do something outside the box in regard to how we are paid that would make chasing equipment or seat less likely. Maybe the West members will get involved in the process this time without being verbally abused and threatened for cooperating. Even something like 1/3 of bidding slots for widebody under DOH could probably be passed?

 

[nycbusdriver]

luv,

For someone who seems so convinced you're right you sure do spend a lot of time trying to convince people you're right. Why not just sit back and be vindicated in the end? Doubts, maybe? ...

BB,

For someone who really has no dog in this fight you sure do spend a lot of time trying to convince people you're right. Why not just sit back and be vindicated in the end? Doubts, maybe?

 

[BoeingBoy]

So then you don't mind that some of us doubt that you are happily retired and enjoying your new life?

Well, if I start making multiple posts each day telling everyone how happily retired I am and how enjoyable my "new" life is, you have my permission to tell me that I "doth protest too much". On the other hand, maybe you can help luvthe9 and others find the copy of the 9th's ruling that actually says what they claim the 9th said. I haven't run across it yet but would love to read it. You can start with the part where the 9th ruled that "We find that USAPA is free to abandon the prior arbitrated award and use any seniority proposal of it's choosing as long as the majority ratifies the contract containing that proposal." Otherwise, correcting the BS that is presented as fact is nearly a full time job.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Don't know, don't care. What position someone bids is their own business. I've bid reserve before, even when I held nice blocks.

Come on, oldie, even you know the difference between having so little seniority that you can only get what nobody else wants and bidding something less than what one's seniority can hold for whatever personal reasons. Evasions and deflections don't become you, although it's a common trait among your compatriots. Maybe it's infectious...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Maybe the West members will get involved in the process this time without being verbally abused and threatened for cooperating.

You have not heard? The West Migs count has surpassed 1000. West gets another rep. Looks like the interim temporary rep is a named Addington Plaintiff. So, the West has the founder of AOL who is also a Cactus 18 defendant running for EVP. Another rep who is a Cactus 18 defendant, and very much pro AOL and "stick with the Nic". a second rep who would like nothing more than to see usapa go away, and the interim rep put his name on the suit against usapa.

Times have changed here on the West, no verbal abuse or threats for these guys.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Come on, oldie, even you know the difference between having so little seniority that you can only get what nobody else wants and bidding something less than what one's seniority can hold for whatever personal reasons. Evasions and deflections don't become you, although it's a common trait among your compatriots. Maybe it's infectious...

Jim

What is it about "don't know, don't care" has you so confused?

I see your point, though. You agree that longevity is a fair way to merge the lists. Remember, also, that "conditions and restrictions" are to protect BOTH sides. Can't have one side limited by fences and not the other. I say just ditch them all and go straight LOS, with no bump, no flush. That way, everyone gets credit for ALL the time they served the company. West guys get widebodies, East get PHX, if they want. Company gets much easier and predictable crew planning.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What is it about "don't know, don't care" has you so confused?

Not confused at all since it's clear that it was evading the question, especially when you add in the rest of what I quoted from your post.

I see your point, though. You agree that longevity is a fair way to merge the lists.

I think it's you that are confused now (or maybe like me and need those reading specs at times). 88T.B.D. (and you) said that, not me.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

You have not heard? The West Migs count has surpassed 1000. West gets another rep. Looks like the interim temporary rep is a named Addington Plaintiff.

Now that I think about it, perhaps it is time to move usapa headquarters to Tempe. Biggest crew base, right next door to corporate, real estate is at bargain prices, the Taurus fleet wil not corrode.