US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

how do you explain away the years where you made more, and the east didn't?

Simple - pre-merger concessions that the East pilots voted for. Has nothing to do with post-merger earnings under a joint contract. It was the post-merger raise that helped balance the equities in the dispatcher's integration.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Simple - pre-merger concessions that the East pilots voted for. Has nothing to do with post-merger earnings under a joint contract. It was the post-merger raise that helped balance the equities in the dispatcher's integration.

Jim

So what does it really matter? The west is going to be able to say they got a smaller raise with every number thrown out there to infinity. They start from a higher point. Balanced by the fact the east worked for the same company, I repeat, same company with a lower pay scale. Unchanged by the west, so that is why your raise is going to be smaller, and the east has no problem with it.

 

[767jetz]

a quota system to slot them in to a point where they never were even on the property.

This where you are wrong. There was no property that you speak of. It is a new property. Not YOUR property just because it has your name. So they DID have a place on that new property and want it to be the same relative position as before. Whatever was lost by the east happened long before AWA showed up on the scene.

 

[luvthe9]

This where you are wrong. There was no property that you speak of. It is a new property. Not YOUR property just because it has your name. So they DID have a place on that new property and want it to be the same relative position as before. Whatever was lost by the east happened long before AWA showed up on the scene.

Who said anything about relative position? You don't even work here, but we are expected to merge with your ideas.

 

[luvthe9]

This where you are wrong. There was no property that you speak of. It is a new property. Not YOUR property just because it has your name. So they DID have a place on that new property and want it to be the same relative position as before. Whatever was lost by the east happened long before AWA showed up on the scene.

We have a real problem with throwing out 17 years of uninterrupted service by some of our guys who actually work for this company, not UAL. If that is how you want it over there, have at it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The west is going to be able to say they got a smaller raise with every number thrown out there to infinity.

Yes, and that is one of the equities to be balanced in seniority integration. When the west says that you want the bigger (or only if that's the case) raise and most of the seniority and both east and west attrition, where is the balancing of the equities. That's not only what an arbitrator will consider, but a judge and jury in any future DFR suit - are the equities fairly balanced or is one side trying to get all of them...

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Just because we don't buy into some collectivist idea that a guy with 17 years gets slotted right down there with a new hire, and that doesn't sit well with a UAL pilot bothers me none.

 

[luvthe9]

Yes, and that is one of the equities to be balanced in seniority integration. When the west says that you want the bigger (or only if that's the case) raise and most of the seniority and both east and west attrition, where is the balancing of the equities. That's not only what an arbitrator will consider, but a judge and jury in any future DFR suit - are the equities fairly balanced or is one side trying to get all of them...

Jim

This is not going before an arbitrator. This is now an internal union dispute, if it comes to that. The only way the west can go against this is after a joint contract is ratified, and they decide to pursue a DFR. Arbitration is not an option anymore, unless the east agrees to it. Even then, it most likely would not qualify for arbitration because this is now a pilot group represented by one organization. One more reason the west should have worked a deal before this point. This is not the America West Pilots v.s. USAirways Pilots anymore. It is USAirways Pilots having an internal dispute.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Any contract with DOH is a DFR. Understand that fact.The Nicolau with PHX locked in is a DFR.

Rampers park an East airplane first? DFR!

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is not going before an arbitrator. This is now an internal union dispute, if it comes to that. The only way the west can go against this is after a joint contract is ratified, and they decide to pursue a DFR.

Granted. I threw "arbitrator" in there because that's what Nic did - balance the equities as he thought was fair. It is also what a judge and jury will do and why USAPA needs to be very careful about what it wants to put in a combined contract. Merely locking the west pilots into PHX, so they move backwards more slowly than pure DOH (but move backward) will not balance the equities. No balance of the equities, there's two prongs of the DFR test to hang USAPA with.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

how do you explain away the years where you made more, and the east didn't?

Simple, we say, according to the company, the cost of an indiviidual pilot from either side is relatively the same. The east has equiptment differential and the highest paid pilots in the company. Moreover, they recieved 2 $35 million lump sum payments, have higher LTD cost, have higher training cost, higher scheduling cost, have cost significantly more in damaged aircraft but I digress.

How are you going to explain that pilots with only 6 years time in service deserve to be senior to hundreds of west captains who had more time in service, some of which had more time as captains than these folks had in any seat?

 

[nic4us]

Rampers park an East airplane first? DFR!

Why, is usapa is going to let the rampers join the fake union now?

 

[luvthe9]

Simple, we say, according to the company, the cost of an indiviidual pilot from either side is relatively the same. The east has equiptment differential and the highest paid pilots in the company. Moreover, they recieved 2 $35 million lump sum payments, have higher LTD cost, have higher training cost, higher scheduling cost, have cost significantly more in damaged aircraft but I digress.

How are you going to explain that pilots with only 6 years time in service deserve to be senior to hundreds of west captains who had more time in service, some of which had more time as captains than these folks had in any seat?

The east pilot is not going to interface with the west pilot in PHX. If you want to come east? Welcome, but at DOH. I imagine you are going to get some 76 and 330 upgrades, and that is fine.

 

[boeingplt]

YWhen the west says that you want the bigger (or only if that's the case) raise and most of the seniority and both east and west attrition, where is the balancing of the equities.
Jim

Have you read the USAPA C and Rs? All of the west attrition is preserved for west pilots along with preserved ratios if flying is reduced out west along with first right of return if that flying is reinstated

Where is the west pursuit of inequity if that is not enough?

 

[Barrister]

What?

How by making more than the east?

Balance my friend. Look at the dispatchers. The arbitrator gave them a bigger raise and took some seniority. usapa wants the bigger raise and the seniority. You don't get both.

Where is the balance? You want 90% of the economics and 100% of the seniority. Not representing the west fairly. Easy case I will take any judge.

You guys might want to start looking for a good lawyer for your own DFR case. I think usapa might, I say might be smart enough and the company is for sure smart enough to know that DOH is DFR. So no DOH for you. I suggest filing your own suit. Start the fund raising now it takes awhile. $2 mil divided by 1000 angry FO's that is only $2000.00 each. Who is stepping up and putting name on the line to start the fund? Let me know I will send you a couple of bucks.

Breeger might make another appearance too. Man cleary is going to have his hands full. A divided pilot group for the rest of our careers. Nice unity usapa.

Clear when you come East to fly the big iron, you will be welcomed,
coffee hot , what can we get you Captain, when would you like your
meal? AS LONG AS YOU DO IT DOH....of course we will be sitting
in the back having a martini by then, long retired Fly smooth...if you please!!

NICDOA
NPJB