US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

Lets put it this way.....

A non-answer from he who demands specific answers. So again, how do you think the UA furloughed pilots should be treated. Specifics, please.

Jim

 

[veritasaequitas]

A non-answer from he who demands specific answers. So again, how do you think the UA furloughed pilots should be treated. Specifics, please.

Jim

I say again.

I would like the United pilots treated, like the MAJORITY of other pilots were treated in mergers in the past, with the original USAirways pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Again the non-specifics - We're not talking about the MAJORITY of pilots here. Many mergers didn't have the furlough issue to deal with, the MAJORITY of pilots involved in mergers weren't furloughed.

What's so hard in saying how you'd specifically like the UA furloughees treated in a theoretical UA/US merger? Not the MAJORITY of pilots. Not the MAJORITY of mergers. A specific group of pilots in a specific merger possibility.

Jim

 

[veritasaequitas]

Again the non-specifics - We're not talking about the MAJORITY of pilots here. Many mergers didn't have the furlough issue to deal with, the MAJORITY of pilots weren't involved weren't furloughed.

What's so hard in saying how you'd specifically like the UA furloughees treated in a theoretical UA/US merger? Not the MAJORITY of pilots. Not the MAJORITY of mergers. A specific group of pilots in a specific merger possibility.

Jim

Your original question. "So again, how do you think the UA furloughed pilots should be treated. Specifics, please."

I replied that I would like them to be handled like the MAJORITY of pilots that were merged with the original USAirways pilots.

Then your reply above told me what color your pet chameleon was today.

Your the airline expert. How was the majority of pilots treated in an airline merger with original USAirways pilots?

Sir, it was date of hire. You were a Piedmont pilot that put Empire pilots on the bottom of your seniority list regardless of when they were hired, You try to justify this and rewrite history by your posts daily.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sir, it was date of hire.

See - that wasn't so hard after all...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Just read the "Emergency Appeal" to the 9th.

What a hail mary pass, problem is, there is no player down field to catch the ball. Why did usapa not use Holly's take on the merger talks, in their latest attempt at persecuting the West?

"As for US Airways -- the management team headed up by Doug Parker and Scott Kirby, is one of the best, if not the best, in the industry. Ask your favorite Wall Street banker. United Airlines employees deserve, finally, to have an honest-to-god CEO. "

Oh, wait, I can answere my own question, it is because it paints a favorable light on the company and the CEO that saved their jobs.


On to better things, while defending their RLA rights to communicate to their constituency, the West reps put Thuer and Seeham in their place. Expect another loser lawsuit from the usapa gestapo if they keep censoring West communications.

Finally, the UAL furloughs should be treated fairly. That is the simple answere. If you are asking where they should be put on a combined UAL/LCC seniority list, that answere is simple also. They would be ranked amongst their peers on the list in the best position their merger committe could attain for them, while integrating the UAL list to the Nic.

 

[veritasaequitas]

See - that wasn't so hard after all...

Jim

Your answer to the same question;

"As the two pilot groups agree to treat them. Lacking that - oh, say one side refuses to budge from their opinion - as the arbitrator decides to treat them. That, by definition, is fair"

Do not forget to say hi to your pet chameleon for me. They say pets begin to resemble their owners, another theory proved wrong. Well maybe.

 

[oscarjazz]

I did go back and read it thank you. The giveaway was when you said you :"really don't pay much attention to it" soooooooo......does that mean that the NW guy you are senior to was at NW 3 years longer than you have been at DAL....if so, no wonder you "just don't pay much attention to it"

Please read the cases of Pot v. Kettle and Goose v. Gander. Pretty much sums up your contribution to these posts.

VNIIMN
NPJB

And whatever years we had put into our airlines both bought us a captain seat on a 757/767. On the date of corporate closure, the NW pilot got a 12% pay raise and I got a 0% pay raise. That brought his pay up the equivalent of hundreds of NW pilots all retiring on a single day. It's called the balance of the equities. You think there is only one equity in a merger, longevity. Oddly, the NW pilots next to me were redbook guys from the NW/Republic merger and had previously argued that longevity was worthless.

At least I have been consistent in my views and not adjusted them based on my personal situation. (See US Airways in the Trump Shuttle merger where DOH and longevity weren't important at all, you know Pot and Kettle and all that). Multiple arbitrators in a variety of cases have all concluded that there is a balance of the equities in a merger and that longevity is only one portion of that balance.

So before you guys blow your top again, you should get used to the idea that in a future arbitration longevity will not be the only equity. Or I guess you guys could throw another 5 year temper tantrum because that's working so well for you so far.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Finally, the UAL furloughs should be treated fairly. That is the simple answere. If you are asking where they should be put on a combined UAL/LCC seniority list, that answere is simple also. They would be ranked amongst their peers on the list in the best position their merger committe could attain for them, while integrating the UAL list to the Nic.

Good "answere", or should I say good answeres, since you used the term twice.

Thank you for quoting ALPA's merger policy since their inception, it was very specific.

 

[nic4us]

How was the majority of pilots treated in an airline merger with original USAirways pilots?

I was under the impression that the majority of pilots were treated to what ever best suited the original USAirways pilots, unless of course a binding arbitration occured to stop it.

Did not arbitrator Nicolau author more than one seniority list in the history of USAirways?

Do not try to paint the DOH arguement as some kind of righteous crusade or bedrock "gold standard". In the past you used it to gain an advantage over others, until others had the advantage on you, then you changed your tune toot sweet.

Have I mentioned lately how large the damages are going to be for the east?

 

[veritasaequitas]

I was under the impression that the majority of pilots were treated to what ever best suited the original USAirways pilots, unless of course a binding arbitration occured to stop it.

Did not arbitrator Nicolau author more than one seniority list in the history of USAirways?

Do not try to paint the DOH arguement as some kind of righteous crusade or bedrock "gold standard". In the past you used it to gain an advantage over others, until others had the advantage on you, then you changed your tune toot sweet.

Have I mentioned lately how large the damages are going to be for the east?

I was giving a history report on pilot mergers with USAirways pilots. You added your own spin and emotion.

No you have not mentioned the damages. Enlighten the masses. It would help the East pilots to plan on a budget for the future. Thanks.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In the past you used it to gain an advantage over others, until others had the advantage on you, then you changed your tune toot sweet.

You mean like a chameleon changes it's colors? Say it ain't so....

Jim

 

[nic4us]

I was giving a history report on pilot mergers with USAirways pilots. You added your own spin and emotion.

No you have not mentioned the damages. Enlighten the masses. It would help the East pilots to plan on a budget for the future. Thanks.

You call it spin and emotion, I call it "color".

But enlighten me, how were the shuttle pilots integrated? It was my understanding, that DOH was just unfair in that integration, because the original USAir pilots did not have the longevity the shuttle pilots had. Did I have that wrong, or did your history report fail to mention it?

If a merger moves forward, the damages portion of the trial will be dropped when usapa uses the Nic to integrate with another airline. If no merger happens a budget will be forthcoming, usapa will let you know the amount in the form of an assesment payment plan.

 

[Reed Richards]

See - that wasn't so hard after all...

Jim

"D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations."

Seems pretty simple to me, it’s just this current transition phase that is giving everyone so much trouble. This too shall pass.

RR

 

[veritasaequitas]

But enlighten me, how were the shuttle pilots integrated?

The shuttle pilot with the most seniority in the USAirways, Shuttle merger was one number below Chris Bebee, a USAirways pilot that was an ALPA national shill at the time. Am I wrong Boeing Boy? Rhetorical question admittedly.

Chris Bebee was chairman of the USAirways MEC at the time of the shuttle merger. After bringing ALPA national a favorable shuttle merger. He was awarded the VP of Finance job at ALPA. He was promptly kicked out of the ALPA building when USAPA was voted in.

To those that do not know, USAPA was voted in as the pilots union representation April 17th, 2008.

Hey, has it been two years already? (another rhetorical question)