US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Real tired]

Bular just went over to France to bring back a 330. It will be in PHL soon.

Make that already here. In PIT.

Two of them. Plus a new 320.

Pre-ops mod's.

 

[Freebird]

Here is your answer. My answer. I cannot speak for USAPA.Oh, and don't blame guys being furloughed on this. You got your LAS shutdown to blame for them.

Pilots would have been furloughed using the seniority list. The Nicolau award.





You just want to pick different ones to dump on the street instead of fixing the whole problem for all of them.......... Why I think we should fight the Nic? Simple. Because it was supposed to follow ALPA guidelines, but did not.

It did follow the guidelines. Right down to the part where we chose to abide by binding arbitration. Nicolau was chosen by BOTH sides to decide...his word being final.

Your side got a massive windfall, a deal that is so far off base, it puts a guy like Joe Monda, with 17 yrs. served, behind a guy on probation with your company. He never hit the street. That is just one of the trees that fell in the wind.

If you'd have gotten DOH, your furloughed pilots would have (and still expect to) gone from NO JOB to CAPTAIN, windfall? Unfortunately for Joe Monda, he must have been near the bottom of the list on your side, and was given his relative senoirity on the new list.



Another, and I think we can go with this. I think your side will scream all the way to the end, but this is it- seniority can be negotiated, or it can be implemented in any manner of ways.

What a crock of sheet and you know it. when has any airline reordered seniority? when. I say next year, we reorder it by the color of our eyes....sound fair?



I happen to believe, and time will tell, that we dumped ALPA before this abortion ever was implemented. As they say, it sits on a shelf. We never got together in an agreement with you guys.

You are still bound by the agreements you made. Does the company not honor your CBA and our CBA that was crafted by ALPA, yet ALPA isnt on property.


So there it sits. Now I don't take this position just out of the air. I say I looked into it pretty seriously with some people whom, shall we say, have taught this stuff, worked it their entire lives. Maybe I'm off. You might get it. But I say we see what Father Time has in store, and maybe with a few wins of one or two shots, we get some pay restoration. A lot of things can happen with time. One is attrition.

Maybe they should have told you the Binding Arbitration is a process that determines a FINAL and Binding decision.

Another is a merger.

Honestly, USAPA and the East group have soured anybodies appetite to merge with USAirways. Every pilot group has seen your 'ways'.


One is a pay increase that doesn't keep the heat on anything or anybody any more. I actually believe, contrary to what some say, that the east group is NEVER going to sign a deal that lets you guys literally cascade on every widebody position that opens. They have been through too much to do that, to give it up that easily. I know some of your boys really believe we are on the verge of collapse.

Your group is.

You are seriously wrong on this subject.

Prove it by putting up a contract to vote on.


I really don't care what you, Nic4us, clear, etc. says over and over about a failed carrier. Say it forever.I honestly don't care. It was a crap outfit, and still is.

An outfit that was seriously days from being done.

Nothing changed in the last 5 yrs. I am just learning to survive among the wreckage. I vote NO on any deal that has the Nic.

And that's fine, that's your right. Just prove it by putting up a contract to vote on.


I don't care what you say. That is as simple as I can be. I screamed bloody murder when Kirch picked Nicolau, I saw what he did in the past. Another reason why I voted ALPA gone. Pension in the night, merger picks, pay cuts, crappy E-190 rates endorsed by Stephan and ALPA,MDA creation and deception for the junior guy, 95 hrs with guys on the street- on and on. Live to fight another day. No, fight now. So this is it. You asked.

We didn't cause your careers to stagnate. I know that this may be hard for you to imagine, but the west has career expectations too. Are we supposed to put ours on hold, so that you can achieve yours first? Windfall?



I and a lot of others know they can't put Nic in until we get a T/A. I say there isn't even a chance of one from the company. They love it just the way it is.

Because they aren't afraid of USAPA. You are giving them all the tools, time and excuses they need. Good job.


It is very dangerous for your side especially. All alone out there in PHX, with a possible merger coming.

Is that supposed to scare us? Seriously?

Also, how are they ever going to come out with a decent pay offer seeing how disparate our sides are now with the narrowbody? There is no way you guys are going to be happy with what they offer. The only ones who might look at it at all would be some of our guys.

Meanwhile, SWA, CAL, DAL, AK, JB all make more than you. Keep up the good work. Isnt USAPAs 2 year anniversary coming up? Gonna Kiss Clearys Ring? and Blow out his candle?



I guarantee it is not enough to get the NIC passed. So there you have it. I believe we are going to have to negotiate something better than the NIC, with some big fences, or you get nothing.

Prove it. Put up a contract. What are Cleary, Mowery, Theur and the rest of the derelicts afraid of?


I am willing to wait personally. So, "your avoidance speaks loudly. Stay on task" means what?

It means that your rarely answer a question without redirecting. Good job on this one however, honestly.

Freebird, come now. All you do is have to ask nicely................P.S. You can go on forever about how you feel this is wrong. Let it rest this time. I told you what you wanted to hear. I have heard all the theories of how you should go here, there, wherever. Spare us this time. I think a lot of us are going to take this stand. That is why we have not flown together for 5 yrs. after this thing was announced. Probably why we in all probability will not fly together. Ever.


See you on the track. I got a bigass Delta 98 ready for you.

Sweet. Looking for an old Ford Ranchero too, Business in the front, Party in the back !

 

[luvn737s]

Bular just went over to France to bring back a 330. It will be in PHL soon.

Good to see the Flying Club is still alive and well. I guess they told Cleary to clam up over that.

 

[Black Swan]

Probably more than we wanted to hear, but I will give you this Swan,

You have advocated methods for mitigating furloughs, and/or getting them back to work. In this rant you complain about the folks who fly 95 hours with people on the street.

I am on board with any fix, even one usapa came up with, to help our furloughs. Common ground maybe?....how about you get the "big ring" to do something about it.

He can't do it. You and yours have to do it. I am not outing any suggestions. You know what you have to do. Both sides.

 

[Black Swan]

Black Swan,

Seems I stirred you outta your hole. Good. Maybe you can answer for the furloughees, why USAPA isnt accepting the NIC Award? Simple question.

Your leadership agreed to binding arbitration, did they not? Second simple question

And in case you forgot what a merger is...its when two entities become one, sharing their assets. Oh about your new 330, you should bid it when you come of reserve. We'll fly together.

And please, don't answer a question with a question. Your avoidance speaks loudly. Stay on task.

As I said, you don't need to rebut as I stand by what I said. You asked me, specifically. I answered you, and this is where I am. As far as a contract? I really don't see one coming. Perhaps the best thing we all could do, as we are in the swamp on the rest of it, is do our part for those on the street and the bottom. Do you guys have an adjustment where you can fly min block hrs? I suggest that as the place to start. All contractually allowed to the min. The Ranchero? I think there is one in Rock Hill. Not too far from you. If you are serious, let me know........

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe you can answer for the furloughees, why USAPA isnt accepting the NIC Award? Simple question.

On the contrary. In accordance with the federal judge's injunction, the official position of USAPA is the Nic list. It just doesn't take effect until there is a new, combined contract. Good luck with that.

Your leadership agreed to binding arbitration, did they not? Second simple question

The ALPA leadership did. Is ALPA still around?

And in case you forgot what a merger is...its when two entities become one, sharing their assets. Oh about your new 330, you should bid it when you come of reserve. We'll fly together.

Can't really answer for Black Swan. But I already fly it, and am not on reserve. Did you get a bid on it, too?

 

[Black Swan]

Make that already here. In PIT.

Two of them. Plus a new 320.

Pre-ops mod's.

Nice. How long does that take?

 

[Flippin43]

T 1050- hoping you are back soon. As far as East recalls, it seems to me that shortages are showing up already prior to summer. The 330 is already running out of guys, and the FAA is mandating new manning on IOE flights, which is sucking up a lot of extra pilots. 76I is the same. I think the east guys are starting to re think going, especially the ones hitting 62, and having SS available, and PBGC as well as those with the military $$. Hoping some more of those guys will decide to go. It is bothersome to see a capt on the 330 fly as an IRO when they run out. That, in my book is not good. I don't know what else to say, except fly the legal low limit, SAP down to the min, etc. Hope something improves to get you guys back.

BS,

As you can see from your own comment, this is why a decent contract will pass. Say that it won't a million times if you want, but you still have this comment in the same room. Clearly deep down, you know it too.


Flip

 

[HPDriver]

The bottom 600 furloughs would have been east and a six year fence. Close?

You think your guys would have agreed to something like that at Wye?!?!

Close?

No.

 

[veritasaequitas]

You think your guys would have agreed to something like that at Wye?!?!

Close?

No.

East pilots were not allowed to agree or vote on anything during that time of the WYE River meeting.

It was a runaway ALPA train at that time. ALPA National "esteemed leaders" would not let the East pilots recall the Charlotte "leaders" and then they put the men that were running the PHL base into receivership. They tried to tie both hands behind the backs of the East line pilots. Nice try.

 

[boeingplt]

You think your guys would have agreed to something like that at Wye?!?!

Close?

No.

Thanks, you've just identified how uninformed you are.

 

[cleardirect]

East pilots were not allowed to agree or vote on anything during that time of the WYE River meeting.

It was a runaway ALPA train at that time. ALPA National "esteemed leaders" would not let the East pilots recall the Charlotte "leaders" and then they put the men that were running the PHL base into receivership. They tried to tie both hands behind the backs of the East line pilots. Nice try.

Where west pilots allowed to vote on Wye river? You guys can stop with the whining. You ELECTED representative to make those decision.

As far as putting PHL in trusteeship. Only the second time in the history of ALPA. There are consequences to not following the rules. Besides, Recalling the CLT reps and not putting PHL in trusteeship. Would that have changed the west position? Where those new reps then going to accept the agreed to arbitration. You guys can scream all you want about the various meetings. The west should be more upset than the east, where was the pressure from ALPA to make the east ACCEPT the Nicolau award. ALPA's duty was to impliment the award, NOT get the west to give the east something that you could not get during the arbitration.

So take the outrage somewhere else.

When USAPA presents a T/A with that same Nicolau award 6 years later are you going to scream outrage and call usapa a runaway train too? What are you going to complain about or who are you going to blame?

 

[Black Swan]

BS,

As you can see from your own comment, this is why a decent contract will pass. Say that it won't a million times if you want, but you still have this comment in the same room. Clearly deep down, you know it too.


Flip

No, I really don't think it will pass. I am being 100% honest with you. Freebird asked for a one on one exchange, I told him exactly what I think. My opinion only, of course.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Clear,
I love ya man but you gotta learn about:

comma |ˈkämə|
noun
1 a punctuation mark (,) indicating a pause between parts of a sentence.

 

[HPDriver]

Thanks, you've just identified how uninformed you are.

Ya, whatever.