US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[end_of_alpa]

That's correct so far as both groups of pilots started working for the post-merger US Airways on 9/27/2005. Prior to that each group had its own seniority list that had to be merged into a single list using a logical methodology that met with ALPA merger policy and with the TA. Failing to work out their differences on combining the lists the issue, by policy, went to binding arbitration in which a dispassionate third-party arbitrator and two pilot neutrals were tasked with the integration process. The NIC award was the result.

*Nicolau and two pilot neutrals (not the west pilots) awarded it
*ALPA accepted it.
*Management accepted it
*The west pilots accepted it
*A federal judge upheld it
*The 9th circuit only mentioned it in a pejorative way towards Seham (“not terribly binding”)
*DL/NW used the same essential formula and have accepted their list.

So it doesn’t seem that your statement is correct that “just not you and yours” understand why the NIC is the legally binding and fairly derived seniority list. So that’s my list. How many dispassionate third-parties can name who advocate rejecting the NIC in support of DOH now that binding arbitration is over?

I don't need to name ANY dispassionate "third parties" . I only know that IF and UNTIL a vote for a CBA occurs there will no "list". Jacob's and his law firm, USAPA, the company, the courts still require ONE thing before any of what YOU want can occur:

a vote of the parties that matter at all: the pilots.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yawn.


You give yourself too much credit. ALPA policy was followed, sorry you didnt get your windfall. Should have came off your DOH stance earlier and the disappointment would've stung so bad.

Got vote?

 

[Freebird]

I was cracking up today Freebird. Actually saw a truck with Wye River Crab Mounts on the side. What a peaceful little place. Love the Wye Oak. You guys should have settled up there. It was your GETTYSBURG! Third day to be exact. Got my bigass Delta 88 ready for you. Check your rearview.

Sounds like your timings OFF along with your Gyros. Dont worry, AOL is realigning them for you.

Your side had its chance to negotitate, like USAPA, you failed. Your demands were overlooked by reason.

My rearview? For a Delta 88 or you on the NIC list?

Glad you thought of me during your rounds... We should fly together, soon.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well first you would have to tell us all how your 24 yrs put you next to a 5 year West pilot, cause it did not happen on the Nic.

The guy immediately one number my senior had five years on nic list.

And that's just me, quite a few guys on the East list above me maybe don't have quite that much disparity, but it's enough to back MY position, excepting the former East ALPA fear mongerers like CM and JS.

Have a nice day.

 

[CallawayGolf]

What is it that you think US Airways is a "new" company???

A merger takes two formerly separate companies and combines them into one new company. New stock symbol "LCC", new stock and new stock holders, new board of directors all mean that a new operating company emerged on 9/27/2005. The two former companies cease to exist and a brand new one emerges which assumes all of the rights and responsibilities of the legacy companies.

If it had been an acquisition this would have meant that one company's assets would have been acquired by an existing company in exchange for a payment in consideration for those assets. If AWA Holding Company would have acquired US Airways Group, the surviving company could have just terminated all employees of the former US Airways and begun hiring new employees to fill open slots. I went through an acquisition at a job I had long ago and lost my accumulated vacation time and any other benefits I had of working for the acquired company. So I went to work at the same location and reported to the same manager but I worked for a new company and I had a new date of hire. This obviously didn't happen in the HP/US merger.

So HP and US merged an a new company was established to replace the old. This is why the two labor groups have to be merged rather than appending one list to the bottom of the other. This is also why the change of control didn't occur. Yes a new company exists but the specific language of the change of control wasn't triggered specifically because the transaction was a reverse merger rather than a direct acquisition. Accept it or not, the number one on both seniority lists were effectively equals as were the number 500 and the number 1000. NIC didn't use a straight ratio, but he had logical reasons for establishing the list the way he did.

 

[Poug Darker]

sorry

 

[Metroyet]

I don't need to name ANY dispassionate "third parties" . I only know that IF and UNTIL a vote for a CBA occurs there will no "list". Jacob's and his law firm, USAPA, the company, the courts still require ONE thing before any of what YOU want can occur:

a vote of the parties that matter at all: the pilots.

Sorry to burst the bubble. Wake Can Impose the Nic. It's been discussed and is in the court records. The only thing holding that decision up is the 9th, (how many months does it take to issue a stay?) and USAPA's behavior. When the 9th upholds, and USAPA spends more time resources negotiating in bad faith with no intention to fairly represent ALL the US Airways pilots, you can expect Wake to issue the order. It's already been eluded to. You're vote doesn't mean Jack S*** when it becomes clear to Wake that it's only being used as a tool of discrimination. Guess What? It's already been made clear to the Honorable Judge Wake.

Seham made sure of that.

 

[luvn737s]

No CBA, no VOTE. How you gonna keep me from crossing the picket line?

Answer: you won't.

I will not sacrifice my TIME for your wishes. PERIOD. As I said, I have just as many strong that you do. Strike and see what happens.

They can't order me to vote OR to not cross.

WHAT??? What does a strike have to do with anything? USAPA won't even poll the pilots, much less call a strike vote. They know just how shaky their support is. They spend money like a drunken sailor with zero accountability, but deep down they know their days as a union are drawing to a close.

You don't need to worry about a picket line. You need to worrry about why you don't have a union that negotiates a sontract worth striking over.

Crossing a picket line to ensure LOA93 wages. PRICELESS!!

 

[veritasaequitas]

Sorry to burst the bubble. Wake Can Impose the Nic.

Incorrect statement.

 

[veritasaequitas]

You're vote doesn't mean Jack S*** when it becomes clear to Wake that it's only being used as a tool of discrimination.

Incorrect statement. Your ignorance of the law is one thing, professing your emotional opinions as facts is counter productive to this discussion.

 

[Barrister]

Setting aside your inflamed hyperbole about shaving, your rationale is not connected to reality. There is essentially a 2:1 ratio of east to west on the NIC. So for every three pilots that drop off the list (east, west, whatever), two east pilots move up and one west pilot moves up. What the east chooses to ignore is that the population and the size of the combined operation is bigger than it was pre-merger. A bigger population and more upgrade opportunities exist today for the east than prior to the merger. Should all of those expanded opportunities go exclusively to the east? The NIC says no that they should be afforded based on a ratio of east and west pilots based on their pre-merger seniority status on the separate lists. The NIC doesn’t steal east slots and give them to the west, but a DOH system would absolutely do that which is why the NIC is fair.

If you are looking for an unscrupulous, despotic, lying, cheating, and profligate organization that is incapable of accomplishing anything other than an illegal delay in negotiating an improved contract for all pilots, then USAPA is the organization for you. Anyone with a sense of honor, integrity, basic human decency and respect for the rule of law would not chose to be associated with this utterly corrupt crime syndicate that can only take money and produce nothing in return.

Your post is utter nonsense. There are NOT more upgrade opportunities now that we are merged. Where pray tell are they. The fact is that the EAST F/O who should get the RETIREMENT slot of a EAST retiree will lose it to a WESTIE who has been here years less.........pay attention now here is where it gets complicated........the EAST F/O is probably already 55-58 years old and will be gone in 5-10 years. He will loose the seat to a guy who not only has been here years less than he but is also 5-10 years younger. NOW TELL ME I DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have all looked at the list we ALL know where we stand and we all know what has to be done.!!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Metroyet]

Incorrect statement. Your ignorance of the law is one thing, professing your emotional opinions as facts is counter productive to this discussion.

I was sitting right there in the Court Room. Sorry "truth and Justice" (only for the east) but my facts and understanding of the potential actions that the law takes is Dead On. I'd ask you to read the courts transcripts but I know you won't...you'd rather sit at your keyboard and proclaim your omnipotence by proxy using the all mighty East "vote".

Do you really think Wake et. al. is that stupid? Nobody...and I mean NOBODY....is fooled by the actions, past and present, by USAPA. It's a fake union and facade meant to be used as a tool against a minority. That's it. It isn't any more complicated than that. Thankfully, this country and our legal system frown upon that kind of behavior. That's why it's taking the ninth more than 4 months to stay judge Wake. Wouldn't you think the stay would have been issued by now if it were coming? I sure would.

 

[Barrister]

Would that be like telling the blackjack dealer that you would like to stand on 16 after take a hit and pull a king?

Dealer: "26 busted"
East pilot: "No, wait I know the deal is over but now that I see that I got a king I would like you to agree to give me a better deal; let's just forget that whole 'hit me' thing I said a minute ago."​

It is an interesting world of delusions and narcissism you live in out there. I sure hope whatever you've contracted that causes fiction to become truth in your mind isn't contagious.

Nice to see we are back to the gambling analogies!!! How about this....you will never collect your winnings cause when all of you try to cash out your winning ticket you got by playing ONE hand there won't be any money for the 25 year F/O's who have been playing all along, have amassed a stack of chips in their own right, played the game far longer......kept the lights on far longer and kept the house open far longer....THAN YOU!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[veritasaequitas]

I was sitting right there in the Court Room. Sorry "truth and Justice" (only for the east) but my facts and understanding of the potential actions that the law takes is Dead On. I'd ask you to read the courts transcripts but I know you won't...you'd rather sit at your keyboard and proclaim your omnipotence by proxy using the all mighty East "vote".

I read all the transcripts sir.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Do you really think Wake et. al. is that stupid? Nobody...and I mean NOBODY....is fooled by the actions, past and present, by USAPA. It's a fake union and facade meant to be used as a tool against a minority. That's it. It isn't any more complicated than that. Thankfully, this country and our legal system frown upon that kind of behavior. That's why it's taking the ninth more than 4 months to stay judge Wake. Wouldn't you think the stay would have been issued by now if it were coming? I sure would.

I think the Honorable Judge Wake gave you every possible rule of law in your favor, unfortunately it brought you back to square one, no combined operations until a joint contract.

The time the 9th is taking on their decision, counters your statement that this is not a complicated situation.