US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Ames]

How about this "fact": no CBA, no VOTE, no "list", no money, no upgrade (for you).

Have a nice day.

This little mantra of yours is getting tiresome. The pilots do have a CBA and a vote. It appears that the CBA will withhold any and all proposals to prevent a vote in order to impose its well defined delay tactic. If the CBA truly believed that it has the support it does from the east pilots then why wouldn't it put the Kirby proposal to a vote just to prove that it will be voted down? Will they do so if the Ninth rules against the CBA? I think not. The delay tactic is working well and won't be uprooted until either the judge or Parker drops the hammer,
which, either one can and will do when the time is right.

Then what? Armeggadon?

 

[Ames]

Nic,
Those would be the obvious pilots many of you wish to step over for many insane reasons that have been pointed out a million times over.
Don't pretend ignorance.
No pilot, I repeat no pilot should advance past another over decisions mgt make.....good or bad.

GOT IT?

FA

FA, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Wiser words could not have been stated. That's why I believe that a pilot, furloughed from the east at "merger" day should NOT be placed above an active west Captain - which DOH would have done. For the same reasoning (your reasoning) no west pilot should be out on furlough at this time while pilots furloughed from the east on "merger" day continue to work.

You and I agree. Please convince your fellow pilots about the fairness of your words.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This little mantra of yours is getting tiresome.

Plus is wrong in two respects - any airline with over a relative handful of pilots is going to have a seniority list and the Nic meets the company's requirements as outlined in the transition agreement while a DOH list wouldn't. Given that, all pilots would see upgrades in turn, based on their position on the Nic list.

Jim

 

[Ames]

I don't need to name ANY dispassionate "third parties" . I only know that IF and UNTIL a vote for a CBA occurs there will no "list". Jacob's and his law firm, USAPA, the company, the courts still require ONE thing before any of what YOU want can occur:

a vote of the parties that matter at all: the pilots.

I agree. Convince the CBA to put Kirby to a vote. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Freebird]

Again, all one has to do is read the annual reports and listen to Doug Parker and Scott Kirby.

You keep repeating yourself when most everyone here KNOWS the facts. I guess if you just say it enough it will come true.


Please don't bring it up again.

I agree that most of the posters/lurkers know the facts. It's just the East AFO's that refuse to accept them.

The Nicolau will stand. Repeated or not. Your refusal to accept this award is only serving to delay pay increases for everyone.

Jetblue still makes more than you, congrats !!!



USAPA = Holding you hostage since 2008

 

[Ames]

The guy immediately one number my senior had five years on nic list.

And that's just me, quite a few guys on the East list above me maybe don't have quite that much disparity, but it's enough to back MY position, excepting the former East ALPA fear mongerers like CM and JS.

Have a nice day.

That's not true and I can prove it. On "merger" day I had seven years on the west and the east pilot just below me on the Nicolau list had 19 since DOH. I don't know how many years of furlough time this guy had but strict DOH was 7/19, making your 5/24 impossible.

If you attempt to say that you meant your 24 years as of today, it would still be impossible becsuse the guy you are comparing yourself to would now have over 10 years.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

The Ninth has actually had a de facto stay in place for going on two months. Wake did it himself.
You can read a little more colorful account of that here (scroll down to “To Stay or Not to Stay.) http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/?m=201002

Nice source of info....the pbs link is classic east spin.

We Are ALPA The pilots of ASA overwhelmingly passed a ballot for an industry-leading preferential bidding system to be provided by Flightline Prefbid. This vote also provides the pilots with contract improvements including a pay rate increase of 1%, increase in minimum-day pay, vacation credit improvements, and extends their contr...act amendable date by one year. Section 6 negotiations are still scheduled to begin in May 2010.

PS The east agreed to pbs long ago. Any thoughts on how much you are going to have to give up to get rid of it???? Better get that pro negotiator hopping!!

 

[Poug Darker]

I agree. Convince the CBA to put Kirby to a vote. Put your money where your mouth is.

Dude, Kirby is a c-o-n-c-e-s-s-i-o-n-a-r-y contract proposal.
Only someone smokin' crack would vote for that.
Try again later.

 

[Metroyet]

But somehow, he did get the message. Almost two months ago, Judge Wake himself stayed the proceedings. You can read a little more colorful account of that here (scroll down to “To Stay or Not to Stay.) http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/?m=201002

Oh yes. The smoking gun. It boggles the mind to know that a group of adults, focused enough to fly a jet, can hold up this statement from Wake and MISUNDERSTAND it so badly. All he, (the Honorable Judge Neil. M. Wake) is saying is best paraphrased as follows:

"Hey Seham!! Don't you think if 9th had any inkling to rule in your favor they would have at least RESPONDED somehow to your request to stay? I mean, I know if I was on the 9th, and I was going to rule in your favor I most certainly would have issued a stay...they haven't. What the hell does that tell you Seham?!!!"

(hint) Wake is saying he doesn't see the 9th going the East's way as evidenced by their radio silence on the stay issue.

Yet here is the East, claiming once again that this is somehow a sign of impending glory when in fact it's 180 degrees away from that. Isn't reading comprehension something we all have to take in grade school?

 

[cleardirect]

Apples = A stay on the injunction from the ninth circuit that allows USAPA to negotiate anything other than Nicolau. NO
Ninth Circuit

Oranges = A stay of the damages trial and legal fees in the next step of the Addington DFR. YES
Judge Wake

You see Apples do not equal Oranges

 

[Ames]

Dude, Kirby is a c-o-n-c-e-s-s-i-o-n-a-r-y contract proposal.
Only someone smokin' crack would vote for that.
Try again later.

Dude, I agree that the Kirby is concessionary for west pilots, not east. Even if it was I challenge the CBA to put it out for a vote. East pilots keep chanting they would never vote for any contract including the Nicolau list. Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is and just prove it.

 

[ROACLT]

Dude, I agree that the Kirby is concessionary for west pilots, not east. Even if it was I challenge the CBA to put it out for a vote. East pilots keep chanting they would never vote for any contract including the Nicolau list. Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is and just prove it.

The APA, CALALPA, and UALALPA are all in contract negotiations. Should they take the first low ball offer and present it to their pilots groups? APA has been in mediated talks with American for 2 years. Why should USAPA do something, that none of the airline labor unions are doing just to satisfy you?

 

[luvn737s]

Dude, I agree that the Kirby is concessionary for west pilots, not east. Even if it was I challenge the CBA to put it out for a vote. East pilots keep chanting they would never vote for any contract including the Nicolau list. Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is and just prove it.

They don't even have to go that far. A Wilson Poll of the pilot group (not random sampling, but the WHOLE group)as to their wishes on further pursuit of RICO and whether or not they want to vote on Kiby would be sufficient and less binding.

But you'll never see that happen. Cleary could care less about his fellow pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There is a fundamental difference - no pilot at those airlines is claiming that "a contract containing the Nic will never pass." It's easy to make claims when one argues that the claim shouldn't be tested, no matter how outlandish the claims. If those on the East side are so confident that a contract containing the Nic won't pass, what's the harm of putting one out for a vote? It'll be rejected, right? A rejection of a tentative agreement could even strengthen USAPA's hand by letting the company see without a doubt that the Kirby proposal isn't close to good enough.

On the other hand, the only valid reason not to put a contract out for a vote is fear that despite all the bluster and chest thumping, it might pass...

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Dude, I agree that the Kirby is concessionary for west pilots, not east. Even if it was I challenge the CBA to put it out for a vote. East pilots keep chanting they would never vote for any contract including the Nicolau list. Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is and just prove it.

Absent the Nicolau Award issue, the pay rates will have to exceed the Kirby offer. Not SW rates but not the Kirby number either. Somewhere in between, closer to that elusive "industry standard".

And that's just the pay. The vacation, reserve system, sick/disability will also have to be satisfactorily addressed before any tenative agreement can even be presented for a vote. The "Kirby", with or without Nic would never pass on the East.

As Tempe has said, we're very far apart, not including the Nic.

Having said all of the above, if a reasonable agreement is presented if USAPA loses in court, it will pass by a slim margin. Just like the EVP vote.