US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/19- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[HPDriver]

BS. I was referencing people with continuous service. Obviously you're "fine" with anything that suits the selfishness of your group....like placing a 3-4 year AWA person ahead of an east pilot with say, 20 plus years of conitnuous service.

Too bad that scenario is nothing but a fantasy.

I guess that's what you have to do to believe your own lies.

And please don't talk to me about selfishness. You guys out east epitomize the word. You wanted DOH with no fences so that you could capture upgrades on both sides.

Save it for someone who cares - actually no one does.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Did your counsel tell you there was no chance of even a possible plea bargain from the DA?...20 Years of that seems like an unusually harsh sentence for anyone......

...and what does "20 years" mean anyway?...Is there some slight logical slippage taking place here? Since when do years of work in a given field denote experience worth some degree of consideration to you?

What part of: Your asserting that your personal experience magically has merit...but refuse to deem any/all others worthy of similar notions..Don't you "Get"?

PS: Although it wouldn't ever come to pass: I'd MUCH rather actually BE working at Home Depot than to be stuck with your situation.....I simply can't even imagine a life more filled with high adventure and romance than what you and, I'm happy for you, evidently enjoy...

Hey, its what I do for a living, I don't besmirch your choice at work, I'm sure you are a great pilot, but you really need to work on your nasty personality (and your threatening PM's, how lame is that?). As for my 20 years, it means what I said, increasing responsibility and knowledge etc. I've seen a lot of employment bs, but nothing rises to the arrogance and hypocrisy of you guys who whine about the rules, but think you can just wuss out of an agreement.

 

[HPDriver]

What it boils down to is that since the years of service didn't get many East pilots what they feel entitled to, the merger should be the vehicle to rectify that problem.

Jim

Yep. And since they didn't get that from Nic they're all pissed.

Get over it. It was never going to go down that way and now there's an injunction to make sure of it.

 

[Piedmont1984]

His comments are indicative of a lack of professionalism and maturity, much like many of yours. As a newbie on this board I will assume that you are the bully I am supposed to fear. Sorry, not impressed.

As a newbie on this board, perhaps you should refrain from casting veiled insults at me, or claiming to know my level of professionalism and maturity based on a few remarks, or jumping to other conclusions based on your vast involvement here consisting of 8 posts.You are a perfect example of one who finds courage while hiding behind a keyboard - and engages mouth before brain is in gear.

Definitely not impressed.

 

[EastUS]

His comments are indicative of a lack of professionalism and maturity, much like many of yours. As a newbie on this board I will assume that you are the bully I am supposed to fear. Sorry, not impressed.

No worries...that only applies when the moon is full,.and darn it!...I'm crushed that you're not impressed...

"His comments are indicative of a lack of professionalism and maturity," In specifically what way? The man just suggested exploring the idea of maintaining seperation of the clearly volatile (or at least highly voluble) groups so as to enhance the viability of some potential transaction. How is such seemingly reasonable thought either "unprofessional" or lacking in "maturity"? Heck..just from your evidenced disdain; .I'd think you would welcome at least exploring the concept.. In any case: Where's any rational concerns for harm spring from in doing that?

 

[Ames]

As a newbie on this board, perhaps you should refrain from casting veiled insults at me, or claiming to know my level of professionalism and maturity based on a few remarks, or jumping to other conclusions based on your vast involvement here consisting of 8 posts.You are a perfect example of one who finds courage while hiding behind a keyboard - and engages mouth before brain is in gear.

Definitely not impressed.

I have been reading your posts for some time now. Just because I only recently bagan posting does not mean that I have not seen enough of what you have to say in order to formulate an opinion. Putting all of the false bravado of the web board aside, if you truly believe that you cannot work with west pilots based on the real facts of what has transpired these past five years then you are both unprofessional and immature. This is not a veiled insult and I did not jump to this conclusion.

Don't care if you're impressed.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It's the same as always. A furloughee deserves to be above captains on the other side. A pilot who hung on to a job by a few numbers deserves to be above captains on the other side. What it boils down to is that since the years of service didn't get many East pilots what they feel entitled to, the merger should be the vehicle to rectify that problem.

Jim

This is beginning to resemble the debates several of us were having almost three years ago on this board.

I happen to believe that because of a number of factors, many East pilots did not get what they were entitled to. You can blame it on bad management, a bad collective bargaining agent, as well as a bad arbitrator's award. Many East pilots felt that the merger would NOT be a vehicle to strip them of what little they had left, that being their seniority - and I mean seniority using your father's definition of the word.

As I have said many times before, those who have little invested in length of service have little regard for it's importance in establishing seniority. And those same individuals will one day, when they too have invested their own years, will pretend they never argued against it.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I have been reading your posts for some time now. Just because I only recently bagan posting does not mean that I have not seen enough of what you have to say in order to formulate an opinion. Putting all of the false bravado of the web board aside, if you truly believe that you cannot work with west pilots based on the real facts of what has transpired these past five years then you are both unprofessional and immature. This is not a veiled insult and I did not jump to this conclusion.

Don't care if you're impressed.

No newbie, I said not impressed - as in negatively impressed.

And if you have been reading my posts for some time now - and your conclusion is I am unprofessional and immature - then your formulated opinion is wide of the mark and my conclusion is you have a slight I.Q. deficit.

 

[ableoneable]

How the merger got off the ground

Truth hurts, facts sooth. You brought this up by the way.

The basic question remains.

Had Doug Parker said, "Not interested" where would USAir have gone. Hello chapter seven.

The merger was indeed America West saving USAir's ass.

 

[EastUS]

Hey, its what I do for a living, I don't besmirch your choice at work, I'm sure you are a great pilot, but you really need to work on your nasty personality (and your threatening PM's, how lame is that?). As for my 20 years, it means what I said, increasing responsibility and knowledge etc. I've seen a lot of employment bs, but nothing rises to the arrogance and hypocrisy of you guys who whine about the rules, but think you can just wuss out of an agreement.

1) You besmirch the piloting profession each time you arrogantly assert that those pursuing it haven't the same "astonishing" abilities as yourself to vegetate their lives away in offices. A fern with some water and not-so-much light can thrive in such an enviornment....No thanks.

2) "As for my 20 years, it means what I said, increasing responsibility and knowledge etc." Most impressive...again..at least to you it seems. I certainly know of "no" pilots who've ever accomplished anything outside of their flying postions...Guess again. ...and...you assume that the accrual of knowledge, with requisite experience, occurs only within offices?...Sigh...and some claim aviators are arrogant beyond all measure.

3) "... but nothing rises to the arrogance and hypocrisy of you guys.." Best Guess? = Somebody lost a heart throb to some flight suit back in the day. Get over it.

4) "(and your threatening PM's, how lame is that?). " I'll say it straight = Pure BS...but...I can understand the usage of innuendo, implication and pure BS...given your chosen field of endeavor.

5) "hypocrisy of you guys who whine about the rules," I couldn't care less about the "rules", I'm interested in what's right, to the best of my beliefs and principles as I'm best given to understand those..., and the nic ain't it.

6) "but think you can just wuss out" Neither is worthy of ,nor deserves further comment.

 

[ableoneable]

Enough said.

Ask him if he would play it that way if he had the chance to do it again. Enough said.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The basic question remains.

Had Doug Parker said, "Not interested" where would USAir have gone. Hello chapter seven.

The merger was indeed America West saving USAir's ass.

That's a rhetorical question, because we'll never know for sure, will we?

I do know that even if you are correct, using that as a blunt instrument to beat the East pilots within a merger is wrong.

 

[HPDriver]

That's a rhetorical question, because we'll never know for sure, will we?

I do know that even if you are correct, using that as a blunt instrument to beat the East pilots within a merger is wrong.

No, it's not rhetorical.

US Airways was absolutely, 100% done without this merger.

That is a well known and accepted by just about everyone except the easties.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I happen to believe that because of a number of factors, many East pilots did not get what they were entitled to.

You're right - there's no unplowed ground but it just keeps getting plowed again. One question though, other than the position one has on their seniority list just what does DOH or LOS entitle one to?

Jim

 

[veritasaequitas]

You reserve for yourself a righteous indignation B) . You wanted to protect yourself against other that wanted to take from you what you considered to be your own; However, you appear to be completely oblivious to any perception that others would be compelled by the same motivation to do exactly what you hoped to do for yourself.

Has it escaped your notice that the West is looking lustfully at the East just like you claim the East was lustfully looking at Delta?

According to you, USAir was desperately lusting to merge with Delta but Delta wanted to stay separate. AWA wants desperately to merge with USAir but USAir would be content with LOA 93 wages forever if it meant that cactus pilots stayed in PHX.

Delta pilots wanted nothing to do with USAir (and evidently pretend it had nothing to do with seniority ) but now that USAir pilots are taking all lawful measures to protect themselves for the same motivation that you did...

P.S. You are welcome to ride in the hotel van. Think of it as "our" van.

Great post. A synopsis of the situation that is "the" quintessential problem, plaguing the pilot profession currently.