US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

I point you to April 2008, PHX USAPA single road show for the west.

Go to the video. USAPA states "We don't need a plan B"

Thank you for confirming our opinion of usapa you agree. Complete fools and village idiots.
So what does that make someone that follows them?

The west has many contingency plans. The fact that you believe that we do not further confirms the previous.

I care not to look where you suggest. I look at our victory over the tyrannical ALPA, union of regionals. I look to MIKE CLEARY. Our USAPA leader.

 

[HPDriver]

I care not to look where you suggest. I look at our victory over the tyrannical ALPA, union of regionals. I look to MIKE CLEARY. Our USAPA leader.

I now have a good idea of how North Korea keeps its people in check.

 

[Black Swan]

I now have a good idea of how North Korea keeps its people in check.

HP Early retiree is NOT going to like this one.........

 

[Black Swan]

Cleary is hanging on by a thread.

The fact that he couldn't get rid of the EVP position shows his base has become disenchanted with both him and USAPA.

Not even a simple majority!?!?!?

Now THAT is weak.

North Korea employs propaganda also. You have learned much from them Grasshopper.

 

[Tiger 1050]

So I was thinking (uh oh. yes it hurt) Anyhow I was trying to figure out just what the company could possibly hope to gain with their Uncle Al letter. Frankly, if as USAPA seems to believe, that the company is on the ropes regarding the LOA93 pay grievance, what COULD the company gain? Sympathy? The hearing is over. No more evidence to submit. No more argument. Does USAPA really believe that this letter was to wrangle some level of sympathy from the line pilots? And then what? The line pilots go to the union and tell the union not to enforce the remedy? You can see how preposterous this is. So in that light maybe the USAPA supporters can enlighten me as to how USAPA arrives at their opinion that the company is desperate. Desperate for what I ask?

BTW I fully support you guys getting your pay bumped up!

 

[nic4us]

First read of the Hemenway letter was from a web link. Found it interesting but have since pulled the 13 page document from my v-file, and have studied it a little closer. What I have learned from a more in depth examination.

1. The company is more than confident they will prevail in the decision.

2. The company has very little respect for usapa in its present form. They feel usapa is being irresponsible with its authority, and have had just about enough of the disengenuos BS.

3. Bob Siegel represented the company at the arbitration. They brought the big guns and are going to squash the pretend union that was founded on the principles of lying, cheating and theft.

4. The pay scale table I have posted 2 times on this forum, showing loa93 pay through the year 2011 inclusive, was an east ALPA document, and brought as evidence to the arbitration.

5. Captains Hollerbach and Brookman have my respect, because they refuse to convienently ovelook what was negotiated, or change their story, even in the face of possible animosity from their fellow pilots. That is, in Cpt Hollerbach's words," I won't commit perjury to get there when it isn't the truth." Kudos Don, you pass the "define integrity" question asked of the West pilots in their pre-employment interview, and Sullenberger at the Addington trial.

6. The mentioning of dropping the Cactus 18 suit in Hollerbach's e-mail, reinforces that there are east pilots who are serious about running a legitimate union, however I was already aware of that from comments by certain posters on this board. Snoop et.al.

 

[nic4us]

When the time comes to do the heavy lifting, we lift. ................................. Back to the heavy lift votes- ......................Try us again on something big. We will deliver once more. I guarantee it.

Okay,

Here are some big "heavy lift" propositions for you.

Try telling the truth.

Try acting like a responsible individuals, and live up to your agreements.

Lift that, and maybe someone will take you seriously, I guarantee it.

 

[Phoenix]

First read of the Hemenway letter was from a web link. Found it interesting

Why do you even bother to read a letter from a company who's standard business model is to carry a record number of contract grievances against its employee contracts, year after year...What possibly could they be announcing to you that is in your interest, when they have proven they have none?

1. The company is more than confident they will prevail in the decision.

You don't say..

2. The company has very little respect for usapa

(And what, the employees should fell guilty and now have great respect for the iron fist that breaks the contract every day and jimmys with the ACARS times on a routine basis?)

in its present form. They feel usapa is being irresponsible with its authority, and have had just about enough of the disengenuos BS.

Alas, alak, maybe.. just maybe.. if we just give them another 30% of our pay and benefits they will finally respect us for a change. Some of us are even willing to give 40%. How about you?

3. Bob Siegel represented the company at the arbitration. They brought the big guns and are going to squash the pretend union that was founded on the principles of lying, cheating and theft.

Uh.. ALPA is already gone. They are going to have to deal with membership ratification now... oh maybe that is why they are sending out propaganda directly to the pilots. Drink up... its all true information. Trust them.

4. The pay scale table I have posted 2 times on this forum, showing loa93 pay through the year 2011 inclusive, was an east ALPA document, and brought as evidence to the arbitration.

Well as long as it was evidence then it must be proof positive that the arbitration was a complete waste of time.. not to mention the ongoing company presentation of "evidence" long after the arbitrator has closed up shop. What on earth could have the company continuing to waste their time and effort on something they are trying to convince you is a complete waste of time? My what geniuses we all are.

5. Captains Hollerbach and Brookman have my respect, because they refuse to convienently ovelook what was negotiated, or change their story, even in the face of possible animosity from their fellow pilots. That is, in Cpt Hollerbach's words," I won't commit perjury to get there when it isn't the truth." Kudos Don, you pass the "define integrity" question asked of the West pilots in their pre-employment interview, and Sullenberger at the Addington trial.

Yes, we are almost there now. The company is about to shower us with affection and kindness... Maybe even a small pay cut than we deserve if we bow low enough.

6. The mentioning of dropping the Cactus 18 suit in Hollerbach's e-mail, reinforces that there are east pilots who are serious about running a legitimate union, however I was already aware of that from comments by certain posters on this board. Snoop et.al.

Remind me please what the Cactus 18 has to do with the LOA93 arbitration? It appears they are going to new heights to show us how much of a waste of time the arbitration was, by wasting more time through the introduction of issues irrelevant to their point.

 

[Black Swan]

Okay,

Here are some big "heavy lift" propositions for you.

Try telling the truth.

Try acting like a responsible individuals, and live up to your agreements.

Lift that, and maybe someone will take you seriously, I guarantee it.

Where have I lied ? How do I not act responsibly? You are making gross assumptions, incorrectly. It is easy to throw something out there. Your above statement is entirely false.

 

[oscarjazz]

So I was thinking (uh oh. yes it hurt) Anyhow I was trying to figure out just what the company could possibly hope to gain with their Uncle Al letter. Frankly, if as USAPA seems to believe, that the company is on the ropes regarding the LOA93 pay grievance, what COULD the company gain? Sympathy? The hearing is over. No more evidence to submit. No more argument. Does USAPA really believe that this letter was to wrangle some level of sympathy from the line pilots? And then what? The line pilots go to the union and tell the union not to enforce the remedy? You can see how preposterous this is. So in that light maybe the USAPA supporters can enlighten me as to how USAPA arrives at their opinion that the company is desperate. Desperate for what I ask?

BTW I fully support you guys getting your pay bumped up!

Can anyone post an electronic copy of the letter?

 

[Phoenix]

So I was thinking (uh oh. yes it hurt) Anyhow I was trying to figure out just what the company could possibly hope to gain..

One of my relatives was the vice president of labor relations for an internationally recognized manufacturer. He always said that unions were the best thing that ever happened to skilled labor. They got laborers with a known, standard skill level...

and best of all you could always persuade a mob of schleps to buy a promise that you could never sell to individuals.

 

[Tiger 1050]

One of my relatives was the vice president of labor relations for an internationally recognized manufacturer. He always said that unions were the best thing that ever happened to skilled labor. They got laborers with a known, standard skill level...

and best of all you could always persuade a mob of schleps to buy a promise that you could never sell to individuals.

Call me stupid but could you elaborate a bit? What exactly can/is the company trying to sell? Remember this is AFTER the hearing! What could they possibly gain with this letter? I agree it certainly is a shot at USAPA but I fail to see any real gain other than to properly manage expectations when east ALPA/USAPA has a documented history of failing to do so! To put out such a missive AFTER the hearing will do absolutely nothing for the company. So logically one has to believe that they are in fact trying to more fully, and therefore, properly manage the expectations of their employees. Additionally I also believe they are concerned that certain named individuals will/could be harassed to say the least...

 

[nic4us]

Why do you even bother to read a letter from a company who's standard business model is to carry a record number of contract grievances against its employee contracts, year after year...

Remind me please what the Cactus 18 has to do with the LOA93 arbitration?

For the same reason I bother to read domicile updates from an association whos standard business model is subterfuge and disengenous litigation.

Since you obviously did not read the letter, the company did not mention the Cactus 18, Capt. Hollerbach did in his e-mail. Stating that dropping it would be a show of getting "serious about a contract, settling the rift between East and West, and acting like they represent all of the pilots."

The arbitration was not a complete waste of time, and I never said as much. It is going to be another highlight of how incompetent usapa is, how much damage they are causing the West, (who is simply along for the ride), and further evidence of a continued attempt at failing in their DFR to the West along with their attempt at a breach of the federal injunction. You folks are going to get absolutely hammered in the damages trial.

 

[Phoenix]

Since you obviously did not read the letter, the company did not mention the Cactus 18, Capt. Hollerbach did in his e-mail.

No. I did not read the letter. YOU were the one who said YOU did an in depth examination of the 13 page uncle Al letter, so I took you at your implication that uncle Al mentioned the Cactus 18 email in his letter.

I'll take into account your extraordinary grasp of organization and logic when I read your future posts.

 

[cleardirect]

Why do you even bother to read a letter from a company who's standard business model is to carry a record number of contract grievances against its employee contracts, year after year...What possibly could they be announcing to you that is in your interest, when they have proven they have none?

Here is something you need to seriously think about before answering. Ask yourself:

WHY are there a record number of grievances?

Before you flippantly say that because the company is just trying to screw us. Think a little deeper. If the company had any respect or fear of this union they would not risk going to or losing grievances. If usapa or the grievance chair commanded respect or fear the company would think twice about purposely violating contracts. But as it is they know that they can win most and force usapa to waste resources and time fighting losing battles. If the grievance chair was any good there would be zero or very few grievances because they would be more interested in settling instead of losing in front of an arbitrator. As it is they have no worries because usapa loses or refuses to finish a huge number.

If the grievance chair or usapa really deserved any respect the company would not read every contract provision to their advantage. No different than a country with a nuclear weapon. Other countries at least think before attacking. USAPA is holding a sharpened stick in a nuclear world.

Now for your question. What could the company be announcing that is of interest? The information that usapa refuses to tell the pilots. If usapa were so confident in their position why not give the pilots all of the facts? Sounds like the Nicolau arbitration or the Addington DFR. Lack of true information is what dictatorships and communist countries do, not transparent unions. If usapa were so confident in the snap back case. Why the panicked multi page response to the company. Simple response. We will wait for the arbitrator to rule, we have made a good case. Not rehashing weak arguments.