US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

It's pretty uncool to ever cheer for the big machine. We don't have a level playing field, not here and especially not anywhere outside of America. If you have a few billion bucks and sell trash securities on Wall Street, then you'll be ok to get away with just about anything. But if you go to work as another white or blue collar average joe, then beware. The machine likes to make mountains out of mole hills. We all make mistakes, so be careful about cheering for the machine as your turn could be next.

Fully agreed with at every point sir. More's the pity for all of us that things are as they are these days.

 

[cactusboy53]

PS,

I love USAPA! Still going to Costa Rica? Do a search on this west guy Myer and his love triangle. Nice guy he sucker punched the ex...beat him up badly. Another fine professional AWA pilot. What a joke!

Hate
Honor & Integrity and also trustworthy.

How proud your mother must be of the level of integrity & honor you have achieved. My folks have both passed on, and I have no doubt that I will see them again. A day does not go by that I don't think about my daily actions and interactions and ask if I am making them proud. Most days I think I can say yes. If your folks are around, you should ask them if the things that you post here would make them proud.

Each time I sit and type on these boards, I try very hard to make statements that are true. My purpose is to attempt to reach the lurkers that are just watching USAPA do the damage it has done. I think that if they & the west pilots can work together, we can move to the more important work of a new contract (and not urinate away money in useless, pointless litigation).

Have a nice evening, and don't let all that hate eat you up.

 

[oscarjazz]

oscarjazz

Thanks for the reply.

I won't flame but I think you are unfair to characterize USAirways as a failing carrier long before the merger. There was a time when the company was making lots of money, growing and enjoying some of the best pay and benefits in the industry.

If bankruptcy is the measure of a failing company, don't forget your own episode.

And not long after the merger you were at some risk of seeing Delta become our Delta.

Finally, I usually associate popping a cork with celebration

There was a time when US Airways was strong, just not for a while. How else can a 16 year guy be on furlough? Your airline was constantly shrinking and was in bankruptcy for the second time in a few years. There wasn't a realistic business plan ahead except to get bought by someone.

Believe me, I have all the scars from bankruptcy so I know we aren't bulletproof. I was part of the team that led the effort to fight off Parker, it was close, but not that close. We maintained almost all major protections in our scope clause even in Chapter 11, so Parker would have had much difficulty carrying through his plans.

After we exited bankruptcy, we recalled all of our furloughed pilots, hired 700 new pilots and added a bunch of 777's and 737's. We are now the biggest airline in the world and next year we will have the best contract (unless someone else signs a deal soon). That is less than 3 years after exiting. All bankruptcies are not the same. As I said before, if the financial conditions of our companies were similar then why the huge disparity between my career and someone hired at Airways at the same time?

I am not saying this to provoke or gloat, just an outsider's view of a group of people that seem intent on committing career suicide. It is sad to watch.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The following is sage advice for pilots being questioned on the job, or as private citizens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik...player_embedded


It's really uncool to cheer for The Man.

 

[hp_fa]

PS,

I love USAPA! Still going to Costa Rica? Do a search on this west guy Myer and his love triangle. Nice guy he sucker punched the ex...beat him up badly. Another fine professional AWA pilot. What a joke!

You know, if any incident like this had occurred with someone from the East involved and a person from the West made fun of it in order to try and make points regarding a wholly unrelated pilot arbitration and union dispute I would publicly have posted that I thought the post was low class and irrelevant.

You may infer from that what you chose to.

 

[EastUS]

I love USAPA! Still going to Costa Rica? Do a search on this west guy Myer and his love triangle. Nice guy he sucker punched the ex...beat him up badly. Another fine professional AWA pilot. What a joke!

Hate
Honor & Integrity and also trustworthy.

In all fairness; I don't see such as at all representative of the west's total of 1700+ people. Whatever our manifest differences; I've "met" a few online here who I've zero reason not to consider as decent men.....but I must agree that I've far past had my full share of all the west's self-assigned "honor" and "integrity matters" BS.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I am not saying this to provoke or gloat, just an outsider's view of a group of people that seem intent on committing career suicide. It is sad to watch.

I disagree that we are committing career suicide. I also think that this sad episode too shall pass.

During our foray into multiple bankruptcy, I heard many times from many sources that DAL was betting heavily on our disappearing from the scene altogether - so I take your "sad to watch" comment with a grain or two.

What separates a great career from a mediocre one from a lousy one in this business boils down to being in the right place at the right time.

Enjoy your good fortune.

KV

 

[HPDriver]

Westies,

All that honor and integrity out west. Looks like another west pilot is having trouble with the law. Nothing but the best........America West.........Maybe Aquaman can help a fellow AWA pilot.

Hate

Who was that east guy involved in a gun fight with his neighbor?

Anyone?

 

[N924PS]

I disagree that we are committing career suicide. I also think that this sad episode too shall pass.

KV

PI1984-

If the 9th Circuit Court upholds Judge Wake and the jury, will that be your indication this sad episode has passed?

Will it then be time to move on to better the lives of ALL USAirways pilots or will USAPA mire us in years more delay?

 

[HPDriver]

I won't flame but I think you are unfair to characterize USAirways as a failing carrier long before the merger

YHGTBSM!!

You'd be lucky if bankruptcy was even an option for the east at the time of this merger.

Everyone and their moms have stated that liquidation would have happened had this merger not gone through.

He was being generous with his descriptions about you airline prior to the merger!

 

[Piedmont1984]

PI1984-

If the 9th Circuit Court upholds Judge Wake and the jury, will that be your indication this sad episode has passed?

Will it then be time to move on to better the lives of ALL USAirways pilots or will USAPA mire us in years more delay?

I can't speak for USAPA. But I am ready to stop sending my money to lawyers.

That does not mean I will vote for another version of a bankruptcy era contract, which has simply been adjusted a few percentage points for inflation.

IOW, if I ever vote for the NIC, it will be because the rest of the contract is so good - it doesn't matter.

 

[aquagreen73s]

That does not mean I will vote for another version of a bankruptcy era contract, which has simply been adjusted a few percentage points for inflation.

Absolutely correct. Industry standard pay with a significant improvement in scope are nonnegotiable. We can't sign anything that lacks either.

 

[oscarjazz]

I disagree that we are committing career suicide. I also think that this sad episode too shall pass.

During our foray into multiple bankruptcy, I heard many times from many sources that DAL was betting heavily on our disappearing from the scene altogether - so I take your "sad to watch" comment with a grain or two.

What separates a great career from a mediocre one from a lousy one in this business boils down to being in the right place at the right time.

Enjoy your good fortune.

KV

First, I am a line pilot at Delta so I have as much say over corporate strategy as you do. If DAL management was betting on your disappearance then they bet wrong. Don't think I had anything to do with whatever DAL management was hoping for. Those guys are all gone now anyway and good riddance to them.

It is definitely better to be lucky in this industry. However, you can make your own luck too. When faced with a merger, our union decided to add value by facilitating the seniority merger and letting the company move ahead quickly with the integration. We then extracted a portion of that value into contractual gains and in stock that was worth more than $700 mm. The idea was created by our union, sold to management by our union, and sold to the Board of Directors by our union. We also had to constantly herd the NWA group back into the fold as they often wanted to go down the path of the traditional cat fight of mergers.

In April of 2008 Delta pilots only signed a deal with management that brought the majority of the gains to Delta pilots only. Northwest pilots had given up almost all their scope protections in bankruptcy. Delta pilots could have refused to bargain jointly and used our advantageous position to stick it to the NWA pilots like you read about.

Instead, we went and got them a joint contract and an expedited seniority process. We chose our path and made a lot of our good fortune for ourselves. You all can make the same choice or you can continue on your chosen path.

Some luck is just lucky, some luck is made.

 

[Piedmont1984]

YHGTBSM!!

You'd be lucky if bankruptcy was even an option for the east at the time of this merger.

Everyone and their moms have stated that liquidation would have happened had this merger not gone through.

He was being generous with his descriptions about you airline prior to the merger!

He was describing our airline "long" before the merger - a time before you were probably an airline pilot

In any case, what does our perceived or actual proximity to liquidation have to do with the integration of two pilot lists - if you were implying that it is relevant.

And my mom never said such a thing.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Absolutely correct. Industry standard pay with a significant improvement in scope are nonnegotiable. We can't sign anything that lacks either.

Thanks for a perfect example why the DFR is not ripe.