US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

..

And again, if you want to utilize factual information to make your point, Wikipedia is not it. ANYONE can manipulate that information to make it say whatever they want. ..

Factual information (along with reputable bibliographies properly footnoted) is SOOO essential on a web forum...

 

[veritasaequitas]

OK you want to play games but let's try again.

What time frame is imminent? One week, one month, one year, two years for a merger/transaction with UAL? Your word imminent give us a time frame.

Clear enough?

Going to the SCOTUS is not for sure. The SCOTUS hearing the case is even less likely.

Wikipedia, well I guess that might be where Seham got his theory to defend usapa. About the same quality of information. Perhaps you will point to a blog to back up your argument that Wake was wrong too. When you guys start bringing credible sources you might begin to make your case. Otherwise the kindergarden version of debate is tiring.

As far as doing the pilots a disservice. Allowing them to think that there is a snap back anywhere in the future is just cruel.

The merger or more likely, the corporate transaction, (no employees transfer in a transaction), will take place after a Supreme Court decision, about a year from now.

There are credible sources linked in Wikipedia. Please find one Wikipedia link about West pilots that is erroneous and report back to me. Please do not split hairs on what gym shoes they are reported to have worn on overnights.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Bottom line. One side has an in house arbitration award, the other has no combined operations until a contract.

The two side have to meet and discuss where we go in the future. In chess this is called a stalemate. Your move, you know that the other side will move their king out of check again and again, keep trying but you will never "win".

 

[Metroyet]

according to new ALPA policy.

Dream on. You're leaning on so many half truths and lies by omission that you have zero credibility...like "End of Black Swan"

 

[Metroyet]

Uh.... yeah.

But "What exactly did they DO?" What is it that they DID that was wrong?

Did they write a scary memo?

Yes. There were many "scary" memos. What did they do you ask? Well, perhaps you'll recall that they were convicted/found GUILTY of failing their minority pilots in their Duty to Fairly Represent them? Does that sound familiar? Remember? That whole Jury thing where average Joe citizens saw right through the thinly veiled pile of B.S. that is USAPA? No? No recollection?

Not Surprised.

 

[nic4us]

Allowing your junior and furloughed pilots to think that they will have a job in the future and receive back pay is a cruel disservice to the pilots and their families.

You are talking about who? the east ALPA negotiating committee and the DOH promise? The usapa scam election and DOH promise? or the usapa pie in the sky LOA93 grievence?

By the way, the block hours grievence that was won by the West, when the company transfered flying east to save your jobs and bring disproportionate West furloughs, is still pending a damage result. Also, the bifrucated trial, in which usapa was found liable, awaits a damages verdict.

I do not see West posters telling our furloughed pilots they will recieve back pay, but two things are looking more and more likely.

1. West furloughed pilots still have and will always have a place on the seniority list senior to Colello.
2. East pilots are in for a huge assessment. I do not think your next 35 million lump sum will cover the bill.

 

[Metroyet]

Bottom line. One side has an in house arbitration award, the other has no combined operations until a contract.

The two side have to meet and discuss where we go in the future. In chess this is called a stalemate. Your move, you know that the other side will move their king out of check again and again, keep trying but you will never "win".

One Problem. There are not "TWO SIDES". When USAPA demanded MONEY (under threat of career termination) for their services, they have to hold up their side of the bargain. Unfortunately for the half-wit waterheads that run your fake union, they are not allowed to pick and choose which rules apply to them. There is only ONE side now. USAPA. They have been found guilty in failing to represent the minority. That's it. It's over. You guys wanted to get rid of ALPA and squash dual ratification. You did....You just weren't prepared for what that reality actually means, (hint, Seham lied to you).

USAPA is the West Union and the East Union. You guys carved NIC in stone with your USAPA vote....which to me, is the most amusing part of this whole thing.

 

[veritasaequitas]

All the other work groups at USAirways went date of hire. ALPA's new policy is longevity and Date of hire.

ALPA dropped a bar of soap in the shower with the East pilots, it should not come to anyone's surprise that the East would not make an attempt to retrieve it.

 

[cleardirect]

All the other work groups at USAirways went date of hire. ALPA's new policy is longevity and Date of hire.

ALPA dropped a bar of soap in the shower with the East pilots, it should not come to anyone's surprise that the East would not make an attempt to retrieve it.

We don't work for the other groups we are pilots. If you want DOH go apply to be a F/A or dispatcher. These arguments are become weaker all the time. Repeating them does nothing.

 

[EastUS]

Fact, the west has won.

There seems precious little point in further discussion then. Why there is any evident anger and distress in the west at all is most puzzling in light of that "Fact". I'd think it more reasonable to just pop a Sovereign of Dom and enjoy the fruits of a job well done...?

 

[nic4us]

All the other work groups at USAirways went date of hire. ALPA's new policy is longevity and Date of hire.

There is no new ALPA policy dictating DOH. As a matter of fact, ALPA's policy still has the same 5 tenets, and to this day if used in our integration would have resulted in the same award.

 

[EastUS]

Color me surprised. No answer from an east pilot. I ask for a date and I get a definition. Let me try again.

I've noticed that the west also suffers some from temporal insecurity. I've yet to receive any date for the nic implementation from even those who flatly state "Fact. The west has won." Care to clear that up for us all?

 

[cleardirect]

Uh.... yeah.

But "What exactly did they DO?" What is it that they DID that was wrong?

Did they write a scary memo?

I’m sorry who are you taking about? USAPA. I think the better question would be other than being found liable of DFR what have they DONE?

USAPA wrote a scary press release to the public about fuel school and got nowhere after the press found out what usapa was all about.

They wrote a scary press release demanding lower fares and opened door for SWA to come kick our behinds.

How is that new contract coming along?
Where is that DOH list. (Oh that’s right stopped by a federal injunction)
Where is the better union, more responsive to the pilots? (Looks like hero worship to me, kissing rings and all)
Where is the cheaper union that keeps all of the money in house? (1.95% the same as the last union)

That is a pretty poor track record for a two year old union. No contract, no money, no respect, just a losing law suit and a DFR injunction.

Sad really.

 

[nic4us]

All the other work groups at USAirways went date of hire.

Another very lame half truth.

The truth is, all other work groups at USAirways integrated via their union merger policy or the corporate policy, even under arbitration when necessary.

The only group who feels they are entitled to a special consideration is the east pilot group. Who also believes they can reneg on binding arbitration and are somehow above the RLA and Federal law.

 

[Black Swan]

Well obviously not.

Nicolau told you that you were wrong, ALPA told you that you were wrong Wake and 9 jurors told you that you do not know what fair is.

Besides no one took your seniority. You were place on a new combined list the west was not just added to your list. Something that the east is going to have to begin to understand. Using the new combined and arbitrated list you can you still have the seniority to hold your current position. Anything after that what might or might not have happened is pure speculation.

So if in deed you are “super seniorâ€￾ you are still “super seniorâ€￾ nothing changed other than having a list with more names on it.

If you want to talk about unfair explain the fairness of our number one “super seniorâ€￾ west pilot being placed junior to 517 east pilots.

Wow Clear. Is it that hard to get that our number one guy is a 1973 hire, and that would be, like at least 10 years before your little outfit was even a low cost , low everything, especially low paid dream for year after year. So you want that many years credit for something that didn't even exist? This is exactly why Wye River was a failure. This must be the kind of stuff they teach in Mesa Indoc. Especially the entitlement part. You better start explaining to your furloughees how this kind of thinking on your part is keeping them out on the streets. Go for the gold and the Nic. It will cost you dearly in the end. Freund warned you. All the risk is on the West. And that risk is coming home to roost in lost legal fees. There is no settlement around the corner, no damages. Just more expense.