US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cactusboy53]

You made my point. You wish for the East to have failures, which will ultimately come home to roost in your nest. Then Seham and Cleary, USAPA will be the scapegoats. You all had your chance to get a deal and move forward. Wye River was the point in history where your collective greed cost 250 people their livlihood. Explain that to them.

I really hope you get your snap back. I just think there is less than a 30% chance of you getting it.

Your group has spent the past five years wasting MILLIONS of dollars on merging a pilot seniority list the way you want, voting in our new little union, frivolously suing west members of "our" new little union at the price tag of several hundred thousand dollars (read...DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE), and trying to dodge the DFR lawsuit (what, about 3 MILLION dollars in Sehams coffers??)

Finger is pointing right back at you. The river job was a sham, and was never going to happen the way you may have thought. The former America West pilots that are furloughed out of seniority order are so because Bradford sold the east group a bill of goods that has only caused DELAY. What you fail to understand is that the DFR lawsuit will now proceed to the damages phase (unless of course the ninth fails to uphold Judge Wake's court proceedings). If the damages trial goes the distance, you may see assessments in the TENS OF THOUSANDS. That on top of the possible failure of the the snap back will leave those pilots that allowed Bradford & now Cleary to run this freight train in utter ruin.

USAPA members that are sitting back watching this train wreck: You are responsible for all actions of USAPA (even though you may not be directly involved).

Think of it like this: If your buddy asks you to drive him to the local bank to conduct some business. He states that it should only take a few minutes, and to stay in the car & leave the engine running. You hear shots fired, and you buddy jumps in the car with a bag of money & a hand gun. You did not shoot the guard or take the money directly, but you are now equally responsible for the events.

Hang man's comin' down from the gallows and you don't have very long.....(apologies to STYX).

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Clear won't come into the ring. How many got furloughed as a result of you guys not taking the deal?

Common sense tells anyone that there was absolutely nothing the east would have been willing to sign off on at Wye River that would have saved any west furloughes. You're attempting to revise history, and none to convincingly.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Key word, Judge in PHOENIX. The Desert Judge carried your foul water as far as he could. Until the bucket sprang so many leaks its' judicial merit, what little there was, dried up in the desert sand.....

Ah yes, and The boys wanted to move the Addington trial to an EAST court didn't they? Think it was the 'it costs us to much money to fly most of the union leadership out west...waste of our time...witnesses to busy'

And they filed the failed RICO case in court in Charlotte didn't they? Court papers kinda spanked you by saying we don't think anyone of the defendants lives in NC...

What's your point??? You have every right to file in your back yard but the west can't?

Just tryin' to get a good ole boy to carry your water in Hill Billy Philly?

 

[Hate2fly]

Not at all, enlightened would be more to the mark. That Wiki writeup on the Early Years is a real eye opener!

Swan,

During the trial in the desert, I remember the desert judge not sleeping well and also saying he wasn't sure if he should even be hearing this case! The westies are in deep water. The USS Westie is taking on water and about to sink.

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Ah yes, and The boys wanted to move the Addington trial to an EAST court didn't they? Think it was the 'it costs us to much money to fly most of the union leadership out west...waste of our time...witnesses to busy'

And they filed the failed RICO case in court in Charlotte didn't they? Court papers kinda spanked you by saying we don't think anyone of the defendants lives in NC...

What's your point??? You have every right to file in your back yard but the west can't?

Just tryin' to get a good ole boy to carry your water in Hill Billy Philly?

Never did get an answer on how many got kicked to the curb needlessly............... After all the smoke that got vented.

 

[cleardirect]

Common sense tells anyone that there was absolutely nothing the east would have been willing to sign off on at Wye River that would have saved any west furloughes. You're attempting to revise history, and none to convincingly.

You are very much correct. The west had no reason or requirement to change one single thing in that arbitration. Anything anyone says to the contrary is speculation or something they made up. Funny how after two years they go back to the same failed arguments that got them no where two years ago.

This ignore feature works really well. It is nice and quiet and free from most nonsense. The only time that I see silly stuff now is when it is quoted.

 

[HPDriver]

Do you really think anyone believes that? After all the ample evidence of what the east is willing to do to try to get it's way, I don't think that passes many peoples' smell test. The only thing the west had the opportunity to do at Wye River was slit it's own throat.

Don't bother engaging this guy. He's pulling this stuff out of his backside.

His facts regarding Wye are nonexistent.

I wouldn't waste my time on him.

 

[Black Swan]

I really hope you get your snap back. I just think there is less than a 30% chance of you getting it.

Your group has spent the past five years wasting MILLIONS of dollars on merging a pilot seniority list the way you want, voting in our new little union, frivolously suing west members of "our" new little union at the price tag of several hundred thousand dollars (read...DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE), and trying to dodge the DFR lawsuit (what, about 3 MILLION dollars in Sehams coffers??)

Finger is pointing right back at you. The river job was a sham, and was never going to happen the way you may have thought. The former America West pilots that are furloughed out of seniority order are so because Bradford sold the east group a bill of goods that has only caused DELAY. What you fail to understand is that the DFR lawsuit will now proceed to the damages phase (unless of course the ninth fails to uphold Judge Wake's court proceedings). If the damages trial goes the distance, you may see assessments in the TENS OF THOUSANDS. That on top of the possible failure of the the snap back will leave those pilots that allowed Bradford & now Cleary to run this freight train in utter ruin.

USAPA members that are sitting back watching this train wreck: You are responsible for all actions of USAPA (even though you may not be directly involved).

Think of it like this: If your buddy asks you to drive him to the local bank to conduct some business. He states that it should only take a few minutes, and to stay in the car & leave the engine running. You hear shots fired, and you buddy jumps in the car with a bag of money & a hand gun. You did not shoot the guard or take the money directly, but you are now equally responsible for the events.

Hang man's comin' down from the gallows and you don't have very long.....(apologies to STYX).

I've got a better story to tell, if we are spinning yarns. How about if one of your buddies knows an Judge on the local level, and he tells you this judge can deliver you the verdict you want, that is as long as you keep a lot of good evidence out, and you know he will. So tons of fact is kept out. Then that judge doesn't get INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. He doesn't sleep at night, because he knows he has no grounding in labor law. He is in deep in this Internal Union Matter. Then you get conned into paying this, because this imaginary Army, lets say army of Leotards for the kids sake, gets all its' conscripts to ante up millions. Meanwhile, a bunch of those army guys get thrown out of their jobs as a result of this army being so misguided, and feeding the troops UNRIPE fruit. Your army leader screws it up so bad, it gets appealed. Now the leader of the army is talking problems with TECHNICALITY, not merit. Rest of the story coming real soon.

 

[Black Swan]

Don't bother engaging this guy. He's pulling this stuff out of his backside.

His facts regarding Wye are nonexistent.

I wouldn't waste my time on him.

Nobody will give me the number. How many did you throw under the bus to get your Nic?

 

[Freebird]

I've got a better story to tell, if we are spinning yarns. How about if one of your buddies knows an Judge on the local level, and he tells you this judge can deliver you the verdict you want, that is as long as you keep a lot of good evidence out, and you know he will. So tons of fact is kept out. Then that judge doesn't get INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. He doesn't sleep at night, because he knows he has no grounding in labor law. He is in deep in this Internal Union Matter. Then you get conned into paying this, because this imaginary Army, lets say army of Leotards for the kids sake, gets all its' conscripts to ante up millions. Meanwhile, a bunch of those army guys get thrown out of their jobs as a result of this army being so misguided, and feeding the troops UNRIPE fruit. Your army leader screws it up so bad, it gets appealed. Now the leader of the army is talking problems with TECHNICALITY, not merit. Rest of the story coming real soon.

Nice Pipe Dream. Check your meds.

 

[Black Swan]

Nice Pipe Dream. Check your meds.

Gastonia Wrecker. You have to know how many. How many took the hit. Don't tell me they threw you under the bus for the Nic.

 

[Black Swan]

Nice Pipe Dream. Check your meds.

Our battle stats- 85 furloughed 91 military. 506 LTD 96 on leave.

 

[Black Swan]

Don't bother engaging this guy. He's pulling this stuff out of his backside.

His facts regarding Wye are nonexistent.

I wouldn't waste my time on him.

You're not up to it, none of you.

 

[Black Swan]

Don't bother engaging this guy. He's pulling this stuff out of his backside.

His facts regarding Wye are nonexistent.

I wouldn't waste my time on him.

Then you know no notes were taken at the WYE. I have my facts.

 

[cleardirect]

Swan,

During the trial in the desert, I remember the desert judge not sleeping well and also saying he wasn't sure if he should even be hearing this case! The westies are in deep water. The USS Westie is taking on water and about to sink.

Hate

He did not say that he should not be hearing this case.

THE COURT: And therefore, I am -- I've lost sleep over the weekend and as the trial has progressed as to whether my limitations and my instructions are effective. So the question you've put is, were they happy?
Well --

Is this the quote that has you so excited? I suggest that you read the entire exchange between the court, Mr Brengle and Mr. Stevens. It did not go well for USAPA. This little statement need to be read in full context. Do you understand what the limitations and instructions that he is talking about?

Go back to the motions in limine and the instructions to the opening jury. That this case was not a retrial of the arbitration.

Read the entire side bar exchange. Day 6 May 5, 2009
Starting page 1112- 1127

The reason that the judge was losing sleep was because he had allowed to much testimony about the Nicolau arbitration and was going beyond what he intended in his instructions and limitations. Judge Wake was giving and allowing USAPA more than he initially intended. In other words judge Wake was giving USAPA every chance to win this case going beyond in order to help your case. But still usapa could not win or provide any defense.

THE COURT: He has a right to withdraw any question. I think -- here's what I'm going to do, counsel. I'm going to give the jury a reminder of the instruction I've given them previously about why they're hearing some of this evidence, that I've given broader leeway, I may give less broad leeway on matters when things get beyond understanding the nature of the dispute and the positions. I think it important for the jury to understand the conflicting interests at stake, but once we
get into speeches like we had from your lead witness about why you should win the lawsuit, that's going beyond that proper purpose.

The judge is chastising Brengle for preparing his witness with a speech instead of answering questions.

These arguments remind me of the judges great line.

This phrase, carefully plucked from its context, is too slender a reed to support such an elephantine proposition.

How about just once you guys try backing up your claims with facts like quotes from the transcripts instead of throwing out spin. Ever wonder why the west did not flip out over the Nicolau? It was not because we thought it was great for us. It was because we read the transcripts and knew what to expect. Unlike the east that had a biased reporter feeding you wnat you wanted to hear. When you distort the facts with spin it is so easy to prove you wrong every time.