US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

Ah...the clown does a trick and the poodle yaps in appreciation.

Jim

I tell ya. No respect for the dead or his fans. Louis Lamour had a great following in his day. Its a shame he never had access to a message board. Imagine. There would be a few clowns still crowding the stage but every poodle would stare in awe, too awe struck to make a peep.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Is this a joke? The pay parity issue was the most cynical act by the East I have ever seen. After the seniority award comes out, the East pulls out of joint negotiations. Then they ask for support from the West to get pay parity while they try to form a new union to try to get around the seniority award. What do you think the West would say? That is really funny. You asks the West for help while you try to bully them around. And the West started it? You sir, are a funny man.

Once again, I am glad you are out of ALPA. Your food fight was costing the union major dollars, which came out of my pocket, and now your potential liability is many millions. I don't want you in ALPA. Got it.

It's no joke.

At the time that the east MEC was seeking help from the west for pay parity, the west was looking on at some east pilots' efforts to for a new union with much laughter and mirth. At the time, the west was not concerned with the possibility of a new union. They could not conceive that it could ever happen. You can check the archives here and see the derisive tenor of comments regarding a decertification of ALPA.

The west was perfectly content with the fact that they got parity with the east on contributions to their pension plan. And later, when east MEC chairman Pollock gave away to the west an equal share of the east contract's profit sharing, the west didn;t say "thank you," instead they rubbed our noses in it because we were suffering through LOA 93 pay rates. They were jubilant over the fact that they were able to rudely grab the olive branch extended to them, and then turn their backs.

So be it. Now they find themselves where they are, and if the east prevails on pay rates of LOA 84, they can kiss our collective ***** if they think we will lift one finger to help them ever get parity on anything. Some east pilots have short memories and may not recall the "less than charitable" events of years past. We that remember will remind them at every turn.

Truly, it IS no joke.

 

[cleardirect]

It's no joke.

At the time that the east MEC was seeking help from the west for pay parity, the west was looking on at some east pilots' efforts to for a new union with much laughter and mirth. At the time, the west was not concerned with the possibility of a new union. They could not conceive that it could ever happen. You can check the archives here and see the derisive tenor of comments regarding a decertification of ALPA.

The west was perfectly content with the fact that they got parity with the east on contributions to their pension plan. And later, when east MEC chairman Pollock gave away to the west an equal share of the east contract's profit sharing, the west didn;t say "thank you," instead they rubbed our noses in it because we were suffering through LOA 93 pay rates. They were jubilant over the fact that they were able to rudely grab the olive branch extended to them, and then turn their backs.

So be it. Now they find themselves where they are, and if the east prevails on pay rates of LOA 84, they can kiss our collective ***** if they think we will lift one finger to help them ever get parity on anything. Some east pilots have short memories and may not recall the "less than charitable" events of years past. We that remember will remind them at every turn.

Truly, it IS no joke.

Simply amazing. A pilot from another carrier understand the facts or accepts them where an east pilots misstates the facts. It has become typical operating mode.

Back when we were all happy and working together there was negotiating you readily throw out that you GAVE us profit sharing, what did the east get? Care to tell us? Why did you guys not negotiate pay parity during that time? Besides how is the profit sharing paying off lately?

Just to be truthful the west was on board with the east getting pay parity. When and why did the west stop the support for that? It stopped when the east pulled out of JNC because you all went off to cry and stomp your feet because of the Nicolau. What was the east MEC telling the pilots at that time? That they would get pay parity and never have to get a joint contract and avoid the Nicolau.

Since the Nicolau was released the east has been all about separate ops. Example LOA 93 snap back. What did you just say? If you get yours you are going to keep it for yourself.

One last question. If the west came out then out now do you honestly think that the company would have just given it to you? Now way/ Listen to the crew news whenever that question is asked. His answer, if he gave you parity then the east would have no reason to negotiate anything else.

So you all can stop the crocodile tears, it was not the west’s fault that you do not have pay parity. It is the guy in the mirror, every east pilot.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Simply amazing. A pilot from another carrier understand the facts or accepts them where an east pilots misstates the facts. It has become typical operating mode.

Back when we were all happy and working together there was negotiating you readily throw out that you GAVE us profit sharing, what did the east get? Care to tell us? Why did you guys not negotiate pay parity during that time? Besides how is the profit sharing paying off lately?

Just to be truthful the west was on board with the east getting pay parity. When and why did the west stop the support for that? It stopped when the east pulled out of JNC because you all went off to cry and stomp your feet because of the Nicolau. What was the east MEC telling the pilots at that time? That they would get pay parity and never have to get a joint contract and avoid the Nicolau.

Since the Nicolau was released the east has been all about separate ops. Example LOA 93 snap back. What did you just say? If you get yours you are going to keep it for yourself.

One last question. If the west came out then out now do you honestly think that the company would have just given it to you? Now way/ Listen to the crew news whenever that question is asked. His answer, if he gave you parity then the east would have no reason to negotiate anything else.

So you all can stop the crocodile tears, it was not the west’s fault that you do not have pay parity. It is the guy in the mirror, every east pilot.

Yup. And we owe it to our families NOT to let some newbies from the West steal our jobs, the ones WE brought to this airline.

And, it's pretty transparent when ALPA guys from other carriers chime in, just to toot the ALPA horn. If it weren't for the ALPA "NON-MERGER" policy, this might be a much better career for everyone. I also blame ALPA for the "race to the bottom" as far as pay and working conditions goes. They continually side with management, feeding their members some drivel about being "managers of the profit center" and crap like that, making them feel that they owe the company something. Pure stupidity.

As far as I'm concerned, the Nic was NOT arrived at fairly. A windfall was handed to the West, as is obvious from the positions taken on this board and others, and I'm quite confident that the law will be on our side.

The West was in the driver seat throughout ALPA's tenure, and they refused to cooperate in finding a fair settlement. Now, they continue to trumpet idiotic ideals, which they themselves continue to violate in a childish manner.

 

[N905TW]

Yup. And we owe it to our families NOT to let some newbies from the West steal our jobs, the ones WE brought to this airline.

Please make sure that those "jobs" include the thousands of East furloughs on the date of the merger.

You are occupying seats and aircraft that you did not bring to this party. How quick most East guys are to forget that there are West guys furloughed who were active and flying on the date of the merger, while all of your furloughees were offered recall.

Thats right! West guys who were flying the line when this disaster of a deal went down are on the street, while East pilots who did not work for the company at the time are out flying.

How convenient that the East is hogging all of the E190 positions. How convenient that the East is hogging all the ATA 757 positions. How convenient that the East is hogging all of the new A330 positions. ALL OF THESE JOBS WERE TO BE SHARED WITH THE WEST PILOT GROUP.

You are correct, there sure has been a windfall - to the EAST pilots.

 

[nycbusdriver]

How convenient that the East is hogging all of the E190 positions. How convenient that the East is hogging all the ATA 757 positions. How convenient that the East is hogging all of the new A330 positions. ALL OF THESE JOBS WERE TO BE SHARED WITH THE WEST PILOT GROUP.

The company had to put these airplanes where they would make money. Had we been given support for pay parity, the west might be flying some, or even all, of these new airplanes. ALPA and our weak-**** MEC forced this east pilot group into a race to the bottom (which, incidentally was America West.) Unfortunately for you, they overshot. How does it feel to have your career pulled down by pilots who are working for less than you? What goes around, comes around....as they say.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yup. And we owe it to our families NOT to let some newbies from the West steal our jobs, the ones WE brought to this airline.

As far as I'm concerned, the Nic was NOT arrived at fairly. A windfall was handed to the West, as is obvious from the positions taken on this board and others, and I'm quite confident that the law will be on our side.

And I'm sure the Heaven's Gate Hale-Bopp worshipers felt just as confident when they committed suicide to move on the the Next Level.

Your characterization of the NIC stealing jobs and being a windfall to the west is completely detached from reality. No matter, USAPA is preparing daily to commit operational suicide and the court system will ultimately prove that Emperor Cleary has no clothes as it were.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Yup. And we owe it to our families NOT to let some newbies from the West steal our jobs, the ones WE brought to this airline.

And, it's pretty transparent when ALPA guys from other carriers chime in, just to toot the ALPA horn. If it weren't for the ALPA "NON-MERGER" policy, this might be a much better career for everyone. I also blame ALPA for the "race to the bottom" as far as pay and working conditions goes. They continually side with management, feeding their members some drivel about being "managers of the profit center" and crap like that, making them feel that they owe the company something. Pure stupidity.

As far as I'm concerned, the Nic was NOT arrived at fairly. A windfall was handed to the West, as is obvious from the positions taken on this board and others, and I'm quite confident that the law will be on our side.

The West was in the driver seat throughout ALPA's tenure, and they refused to cooperate in finding a fair settlement. Now, they continue to trumpet idiotic ideals, which they themselves continue to violate in a childish manner.

What utter bilge.

East entered into a binding agreement and are too cowardly to live up to their agreement. If it wasn't for the merger, you'd be selling toilet plungers at Home Depot. Talk about childish, you all are acting like spoiled brats, there are other employees at the airlines, should they suffer because of the East's greed?

 

[aquagreen73s]

The company had to put these airplanes where they would make money.

Make money? Where?

Thanks to East cost structure which, as it turns out five years later is not fixable, now the West is sucked into the AAA quagmire. Doug made a major miscalculation. AAA wasn't fixable then and it isn't fixable now.

 

[cactusboy53]

Yup. And we owe it to our families NOT to let some newbies from the West steal our jobs, the ones WE brought to this airline.

And, it's pretty transparent when ALPA guys from other carriers chime in, just to toot the ALPA horn. If it weren't for the ALPA "NON-MERGER" policy, this might be a much better career for everyone. I also blame ALPA for the "race to the bottom" as far as pay and working conditions goes. They continually side with management, feeding their members some drivel about being "managers of the profit center" and crap like that, making them feel that they owe the company something. Pure stupidity.

As far as I'm concerned, the Nic was NOT arrived at fairly. A windfall was handed to the West, as is obvious from the positions taken on this board and others, and I'm quite confident that the law will be on our side.

The West was in the driver seat throughout ALPA's tenure, and they refused to cooperate in finding a fair settlement. Now, they continue to trumpet idiotic ideals, which they themselves continue to violate in a childish manner.

I got put "on the beach" for a couple of days for espousing the sentiments of my west co-workers. When I read the utter puffery that you & buddies spew I just laugh. Nothing that any of us "westies" could type will ever educate you into reality. I guess the final comment is: We'll see you in court (again).

 

[luvthe9]

I When I read the utter puffery that you & buddies spew I just laugh.

Somebody was watching a Domino's pizza commercial!!!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

... there are West guys furloughed who were active and flying on the date of the merger, while all of your furloughees were offered recall....

Now what on earth would cause that under the separate operations that have continued ever since the merger was announced? Oh my. It is all becoming clearer for everyone.

Imagine what would happen with separate operations for the next 20 years (who would be complaining the loudest as if they didn't have what they brought?).

 

[N905TW]

The company had to put these airplanes where they would make money.

The company put the planes on the East certificate as it was to be the surviving certificate, not so you could claim them as yours

Had we been given support for pay parity, the west might be flying some, or even all, of these new airplanes.

Guess what? There was indeed support for pay parity by your West brothers and sisters, right up until you stomped out of Joint Negotiations like an angry toddler.

How does it feel to have your career pulled down by pilots who are working for less than you? What goes around, comes around....as they say.

To be accurate, we are having our careers destroyed by people who think they can get out of their own agreements and take everything for themselves. And don't worry, your's will be coming soon.... as they say.

 

[N905TW]

Now what on earth would cause that under the separate operations that have continued ever since the merger was announced?

Next time you are on the ramp, please tell me how many AWA pilots are flying each and every E190, new A330, and TZ 757. Ah yes, the answer is clear allright...

 

[Phoenix]

Next time you are on the ramp, please tell me how many AWA pilots are flying each and every E190, new A330, and TZ 757. Ah yes, the answer is clear allright...

Haven't been to Phoenix lately but I have heard tall tales about how the ramp in PHX and LAS is just overwhelmed by all the 190s and 330s. The story goes there is a shocking population change with more folks traveling west than back during the gold rush.