US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

Not seniority, but longevity. In a DOH integration longevity is all that matters - whether a 20 year pilot is a 747 captain or a 737 fo makes no difference at all. Which is why the East wants DOH so badly...those junior fo's suddenly have the seniority to be captains while the captains on the other side no longer have the seniority to hold their job.

Jim

This is why the West wants the Nic so bad. A west new hire at the time of the announcement gets to go ahead of a east 1987 hire never furloughed. Give me a break. Your vaunted ALPA wasn't up to any job, and they got punted. Look at the reality. ALPA has become the union of the regionals who have not figured it out yet. Anybody with any sense tossed this union years ago. We are moving on, without you. Nobody wants any part of the West. These guys are crying to get the merger done. This was the biggest mistake ever perpetrated. It cost ALPA 13 million a year. They deserved to lose every cent.

 

[veritasaequitas]

East, West and the company agreed to binding arbitration, but East reneged.

You can't do that.

The results provided a windfall, (against ALPA merger policy) for the America West pilots, this is powerfully evident by the polarization of the east and west pilot groups to date.

The East pilots do not want to take anything the West has. The West pilots are not very happy with staying on their side of the fence, because they realize the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You finish with Integrity Matters. The Cactus 18 consist of a bunch of thugs who blocked the safety hotline, and mailed dog excrement. Imagine how great it would have been if these clowns had been blocking the safety hotline on the day 1549 went down. They should be pursued if they blocked the safety hotline. Pursued they will be. Integrity matters. Keep the pressure on.

If you read the complaint, you will find that not one of the cactus 18 was alleged to have blocked a safety hotline or mailed excrement, not a single one of them. Usapa threw in some clever language, something about "the defendants and their co-conspirators" in reference to the safety hotline and excrement. The judge even noted that a couple different times in his dismissal of the case with predjudice.

Don't believe it? Read the complaint and the dismissal, it's all there.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Don't believe it? Read the complaint and the dismissal, it is all there.

A jury empaneled for the countersuit will surely be reading it!

 

[nic4us]

The Cactus 18 are facing some very serious charges and they know it, USAPA as offered a solution but so far they have not accepted some could be career ending if......

If by "career ending", you mean the award they are going to take from the association that wrongfully prosecuted them, without any due diligence, will be so high that they will have to retire in order to properly manage and enjoy their money, then I would have to agree.

 

[Black Swan]

And of course you have proof of these allegations and that these acts were committed by west pilots rather than east pilots as part of an internal conspiracy to go after the west. Of course you don't save for a few phone calls from a few.

1549 and the safety hotline! Does USAPA know how to turn on a TV? The story was plastered over every news service before the first passenger was rescued. What was USAPA going to do anyway - help Sully land in the Hudson? Call the ferry boats? What a joke. All USAPA amateurs could do would be to get in the professionals' way.

Yes, the East pilots were also involved with the JFK shooting back in 1963. We have just moved on to the next opportunity. What was USAPA going to do after 1549? HA HA. Your statement is exactly why these guys are going to court, and you are going to pay. You guys love the legal system so much, we decided to afford you another opportunity to shine. Come on down to NC. You will get your chance to have your say. Maybe the Desert Judge will show up. You are going to need him.

 

[cleardirect]

You finish with Integrity Matters. The Cactus 18 consist of a bunch of thugs who blocked the safety hotline, and mailed dog excrement. Imagine how great it would have been if these clowns had been blocking the safety hotline on the day 1549 went down. They should be pursued if they blocked the safety hotline. Pursued they will be. Integrity matters. Keep the pressure on.

You do know that slander is illegal correct? The charges have been dropped, a federal judge in NC looked and found NO case. So when you continue to perpetuate the lie you put yourself at risk.

Pursued, persecuted I guess it depends on which side of the law you are on. The leadership of usapa is going to find themselves on the wrong side soon enough.

 

[Black Swan]

And of course you have proof of these allegations and that these acts were committed by west pilots rather than east pilots as part of an internal conspiracy to go after the west. Of course you don't save for a few phone calls from a few.

1549 and the safety hotline! Does USAPA know how to turn on a TV? The story was plastered over every news service before the first passenger was rescued. What was USAPA going to do anyway - help Sully land in the Hudson? Call the ferry boats? What a joke. All USAPA amateurs could do would be to get in the professionals' way.

Sully and Skiles, USAPA amateurs. You deserve their jobs also, don't you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A west new hire at the time of the announcement gets to go ahead of a east 1987 hire never furloughed.

Because they had the same seniority - something that never comes up in East diatribes.

Look at the reality. ALPA has become the union of the regionals who have not figured it out yet. Anybody with any sense tossed this union years ago.

Yup - "regionals" like some of the biggest airlines in the world. Even the Air Wisconsin pilots, who attempted to do the same as East and ended up filing a DFR suit against ALPA (and losing), are still represented by ALPA 20+ years later. Doesn't ALPA represent more airline pilots than any other union by an extremely wide margin? That predicted "flood" of pilot groups following the lead of the East pilots and leaving ALPA hasn't happened - wonder why? That's reality, not some fantasy you wish to believe...

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

You do know that slander is illegal correct? The charges have been dropped, a federal judge in NC looked and found NO case. So when you continue to perpetuate the lie you put yourself at risk.

Pursued, persecuted I guess it depends on which side of the law you are on. The leadership of usapa is going to find themselves on the wrong side soon enough.

A Federal Judge in Phoenix looked, and found himself a case. Unfortunately for him, he wasn't really all that well versed in labor law. There really wasn't a case, but the Desert Judge came home every night, and needed a Hobby. He even was losing sleep over it(in his own words) Should have listened to his little voice. Now the good people of NC, they don't cotton to thugs blocking safety hotlines. Especially the ones operating when 1549 went down. A HUGE mistake for your boys. We've got the proof. Wait till that one goes before a jury.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes, the East pilots were also involved with the JFK shooting back in 1963. We have just moved on to the next opportunity. What was USAPA going to do after 1549? HA HA. Your statement is exactly why these guys are going to court, and you are going to pay. You guys love the legal system so much, we decided to afford you another opportunity to shine. Come on down to NC. You will get your chance to have your say. Maybe the Desert Judge will show up. You are going to need him.

They all ready had their day in court. Dismissed with Prejudice. It is usapa that constantly wants the do over. Addington appealed by usapa, RICO appealed by usapa, Nicolau tried to appeal but no one would listen.

Don't forget it was the east pilots that fired the first legal shots. It is the west that keeps winning.

Besides don't need judge Wake for this, any federal judge will do. But might want to bring him for a little golf after in Hilton Head. You know judges get great tee times.

 

[Black Swan]

Because they had the same seniority - something that never comes up in East diatribes.



Yup - "regionals" like some of the biggest airlines in the world. Even the Air Wisconsin pilots, who attempted to do the same as East and ended up filing a DFR suit against ALPA (and losing), are still represented by ALPA 20+ years later. Doesn't ALPA represent more airline pilots than any other union by an extremely wide margin? That predicted "flood" of pilot groups following the lead of the East pilots and leaving ALPA hasn't happened - wonder why? That's reality, not some fantasy you wish to believe...

Jim

How does a 2005 hire have the same seniority as a 17 yr. pilot? This is the thinking that got your group tossed. I did 33 yrs. ALPA. They lost their way in every way, except for the safety side. I had a real hard time whacking them, but after the NIC, and ALPA's handling of Airways, it was goodbye. You can argue all you want. You were long gone. Your ALPA died long ago.

 

[BoeingBoy]

How does a 2005 hire have the same seniority as a 17 yr. pilot?

It's really quite simple. Only the very dense or very greedy have a hard time grasping the concept.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

They all ready had their day in court. Dismissed with Prejudice. It is usapa that constantly wants the do over. Addington appealed by usapa, RICO appealed by usapa, Nicolau tried to appeal but no one would listen.

Don't forget it was the east pilots that fired the first legal shots. It is the west that keeps winning.

Besides don't need judge Wake for this, any federal judge will do. But might want to bring him for a little golf after in Hilton Head. You know judges get great tee times.

This isn't going to be any "where was the damage?" You are going to go up against a jury in NC with charges of blocking a safety hotline, and it can be proved, with a jury. Your boys have a huge target on their backs, and if they make the mistake of going into a NC trial with those charges, in light of the 1549 deal, then your guys are going to literally be crucified. And your funding them isn't going to look too good either. Have fun!

 

[Black Swan]

It's really quite simple. Only the very dense or very greedy have a hard time grasping the concept.

Jim

So simple that 3000 pilots decided that the concept sucked.......