US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[AWE Dog]

Listen to the ninth circuit audio, that court had no question and no issues with anything the federal judge did besides ripeness.

If the court finds it not ripe yet that does not change the facts. USAPA has been found liable of DFR that does not change.

Do you realize what you just said. (No issues with anything the the federal judge did besides ripeness.) If the case wasn't ripe, it shouldn't have been heard at all. So you proved DFR on a case that should have been thrown out. OK, Now pony up another $1.8 and try it again.

 

[AWE Dog]

And then Graber saying.........What was the act as distinct from future stated intention? And then asking what did they do?


Hate

What did they do? They wrote a memo. Classic

 

[Hate2fly]

I don't know whether to laugh, cry or congratulate you for being an honest man.

Hp_fa,

You have been very quiet lately!

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

What did they do? They wrote a memo. Classic

Dog,

Andy said they wrote a memo in November! Wow!

Good luck.

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

Yo Clear,

You already know what I think of your judge in the desert! And guess what, the majority of east pilots feel the same way I do about the judge. I remember Bringle saying to the judge.....I have been doing this for 33 years and never had a judge tell me that! How about Granath telling the judge he is about to have NMB lawyers parachuting into his court room.

I will tell you how I feel about the 9th when they finish with their work! I have listened to the audio 5 times and I would be worried if I were a westie. Tashima and Graber seemed extremely concerned about page 278/279.........for these reasons we do not require or even permit union members to bring this suit against their union simply because the union has announced future intention to breach its duty.[/b

And then Graber saying.........What was the act as distinct from future stated intention? And then asking what did they do?
I am USAPA along with my 3000 plus union brothers and sisters. I like Lee and think that he has done a great job considering what we were up against in the desert courtroom.

Hate

Well it is a good thing that majority rule does not apply to the law. So I don’t care how you “FEELâ€￾ about a judge.

Do you remember what the judge told Brengle and why? I do. So Granth threatened the judge with NMB lawyers, did they show up? No don’t think so.

That is one of the most telling and disturbing statements I think I have ever heard. Once again you are looking for an outcome to determine you opinion of someone ethics or intelligence. Nicolau was wrong because he did not agree with you, Wake was wrong because he did not agree with you, the ninth will be wrong because they will not agree with you. So if it ends up in the SCOTUS and the reject it will they be wrong too?

How about telling us now before the ruling if you think that the east at least got a fair hearing from the ninth, USAPA thinks so. Where they biased and against you too? Let us know before the result. I think the ninth was fair so if we lose on ripeness I have no excuse other that the law. What is the east going to use?

You can have what ever opinon you want about what they were asking. Unless you are a lawyer and are familiar with the cases that were being cited. Don’t be to sure about what was going ton there.

Some of those 3000 union brother think that the east pilots are absolutely wrong about where this union is taking us.

BTW just what were you up against in the desert? The law? When criminals go to court they all think that somehow the system is against them. USAPA broke the law, end of story.

When the west pilots went into the NC courtroom charged with RICO do you think that the judge was against them or the system was biased? Maybe it is just the system everywhere is against USAPA or all of the east pilots.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Hate,
You have been very clear regarding your opinion of Judge Wake. You seem to have good reason for your bias against him. What specifically leads you to this bias?

 

[Hate2fly]

Hate,
You have been very clear regarding your opinion of Judge Wake. You seem to have good reason for your bias against him. What specifically leads you to this bias?

Oh Judge Wake he is a wonderful man.......

Hate

 

[ableoneable]

Oh Judge Wake he is a wonderful man.......

Hate

As usual, no response to direct questions, just smarmy B.S.

Q. Can you answer whether or not you think USAPA received a fair hearing absent the court's ruling?

Q. Other than the fact that USAPA lost in Judge Wake's courtroom can you cite any reasons for your disdain?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Oh Judge Wake he is a wonderful man.......

Hate

Hate,
I am serious. I'd truly like to know what on what grounds you base your opinions. It's a fair question, don't you think?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Oh Judge Wake he is a wonderful man.......

Hate

All you guys want to defame him. What (other than the fact he ruled against you) makes him a bad judge?

Have you pulled his decisions? Know anything about his history, practice, or education?

How about some specifics. I know a few members of his family, he grew up in my neighborhood, never, ever heard anything bad about him.

Please, some specifics....

 

[Flippin43]

Dear Flippin43, since I've got more than a casual interest in the MDA DFR, I've followed it. MDA only wants money, you say. That's not exactly the whole story. If ALPA loses in court, then MDA gets money plus legal proof that the list was wrong. That can then be presented to Nicolau. Whether he does anything knowing he made a ruling on an inaccuate list is anyone's guess. If ALPA settles out of court without admitting an inaccurate list, then that probably can't be thrown back at Nic. Any cash settlement better be very big if there's no ALPA admission of an inaccurate list. I hope that explains the issue in simple terms. I'm not on top of the case enough to predict how it will go. It's been kept close to the vest by the MDA attorney. I will say to the West guy who said the MDA lawsuit was filed too late, if that were the case, it would have been thrown out two years ago. It's very alive and near the end.

To those who came to my defense on my last post, thanks, I guess, but I can speak for myself. I won't get dragged down in all (both sides) of your ridiculous trivia and arguments over the nickels and dimes when we're talking almost 1,000 jobs at stake with the Kirby proposal. Arguing over whether I was off by 50 or 100 is a waste of time. I didn't think what I posted was all that controversial. The two current contracts and the aircraft numbers explain it pretty well. The Kirby proposal would reduce aircraft minimums and increase line ranges. No matter which side you're on, Kirby costs jobs.

Best regards, Dogandsuds

Dogandsuds,

My suggestion is get all the money out of Alpa that you can, cause that will be the extent of what your going to "win"

You appear to think that if you win, you will then be able to go to Nicolau and tell him something he didn't know, thus he will change the list. The problem with that is, Nicolau was aware and still made the list he made. But as your leadership decided that you shouldn't read the transcripts, if you had you would know this.
About the only thing that was clear about all this and to date no one, east, has disputed that I know of. Is that no MDA pilot could bid for or recieve a seat in a Narrow body or bigger, until a recall from furlough had occurred. Somewhere on your list was a junior pilot with no pilots furloughed above him. The most junior pilot at Mainline and he could bid up to any vacancy in mainline when ever a bid occurred. I don't know this guys name during the period in question, but the guy below him, could not do that until he recieved a recall to mainline. Hence there was a point on your East list that everyone below that line was either on furlough or involved in MDA. If you have some proof or information that provides for any MDA or Furloughed pilot to obtain a seat in a Mainline (narrowbody or widebody not Embraer RJ) without being recalled to Mainline, I would ask why your MC didn't present this. Because it is this "restriction or distiction" that led their placement.

If I have this incorrect, and an MDA guy went to a Mainline seat without first recieving a recall and each and every furloughed pilot senior to him also recieving a recall. I'm all ears.

Flip

 

[hp_fa]

You have been very quiet lately!

I've been reading, but I try to stay out of the pure politics and/or intramural stuff. However, I don't always succeed. Merry Christmas to you.

 

[cubfan]

The MDA guys have a looooong way to go with zero hope of getting the Nicolau list changed because of some law suit after the fact.

Clear,

I agree with your point, I as a MDA guy don't feel a win in this DFR case will change the results of the NIC. It should to some degree, most likely not much, but won't happen. The MDA situation is very complex. Alpa failed in many ways when situations of MDA changed, which is why we are where we are. It is also why certain people run and hide when they are asked to give a deposition on what really happened, and their actions. I would to. In this DFR things happened, in the ADDINGTON DFR nothing has happened yet. I always thought the NIC would be in play at some point, and I feel it still will be moving forward. I also feel this pilot group would vote in a new contract if the PRICE WAS RIGHT. Current MGT. want and are offering for the most part a concessionary offer, so under current conditions that won't happen anytime soon. The Kirby proposal would have the opportunity to put more on the street, not sure if the company would do it or not, but we can't let that fox in the hen house, not yet anyway. When age 65 attrition kicks in in about 2.5 yrs or so, around 250 to 300 out the door a year. That alone would put an end to most furloughs and result in call backs. That is the reality of today. Most of the east know this as well as they know the NIC can't be put into play without a new contract. An east NO vote with a proper contract won't last long after attrition kicks in, but a YES vote with a proper proposal before this happens, won't happen either. That is just reality, not some hidden conspiracy by the east group...........Happy Holidays

 

[HPDriver]

Clear,

I agree with your point, I as a MDA guy don't feel a win in this DFR case will change the results of the NIC. It should to some degree, most likely not much, but won't happen. The MDA situation is very complex. Alpa failed in many ways when situations of MDA changed, which is why we are where we are. It is also why certain people run and hide when they are asked to give a deposition on what really happened, and their actions. I would to. In this DFR things happened, in the ADDINGTON DFR nothing has happened yet. I always thought the NIC would be in play at some point, and I feel it still will be moving forward. I also feel this pilot group would vote in a new contract if the PRICE WAS RIGHT. Current MGT. want and are offering for the most part a concessionary offer, so under current conditions that won't happen anytime soon. The Kirby proposal would have the opportunity to put more on the street, not sure if the company would do it or not, but we can't let that fox in the hen house, not yet anyway. When age 65 attrition kicks in in about 2.5 yrs or so, around 250 to 300 out the door a year. That alone would put an end to most furloughs and result in call backs. That is the reality of today. Most of the east know this as well as they know the NIC can't be put into play without a new contract. An east NO vote with a proper contract won't last long after attrition kicks in, but a YES vote with a proper proposal before this happens, won't happen either. That is just reality, not some hidden conspiracy by the east group...........Happy Holidays

Finally.

An east guy with a little reality behind his post.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I will say to the West guy who said the MDA lawsuit was filed too late, if that were the case, it would have been thrown out two years ago. It's very alive and near the end.

I don't think that was a west guy. It was Knower of All Things. Hia contention along those lines made no sense. Court calendars are so jam packed that any judge would be loathe to hear a case (for two years) if one of the fundamental bases of the case (timeliness) wasn't met. The fact that it wasn't dismissed at the first hearing indicates that no deadline was missed.