US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[AWE Dog]

Numerous requests have meen sent but have its fallen on deaf ears. Cleary and company control the BPR to a point where even the reps aren't to happy with the leeway they've taken.

No, it would be better for you to put some skin in this game.

Show everyone that resolve you keep talking about. Prove to the company and the west that you're in control.

I've already made two posts on this with no response. Cleary knows that should a TA go to vote, the chances of it passing are very high.

Did you tell him the west would be willing to bet the Nic award?

 

[HPDriver]

Did you tell him the west would be willing to bet the Nic award?

No. Once again, the Nic is not on the table and never will be.

This isn't a poker game and you guys are about to find out the hard way.

 

[Megasnoop]

The company has retained airplanes it had planned to shed, so the fleet drop is not a foregone conclusion.

The company got down to minimum aircraft as fast as the leases expired. Or dont you believe that? They even went below TA hours limits, grieved and won. When asked why he didn't reduce aircraft/hours, at a news conference Parker said the pilot contract (TA) kept him from doing it. How many job losses would we have if the company was allowed to drop to 250 aircraft? Try back up statements with some real numbers. Anyone who doesn't think the company will reduce to 250 hulls or use reduction threats as leverage has been asleep since the merger announcement.

PBS cannot build a 99 hour line, so the only furlough threat comes from your own trough-feeders. If the losses fall on previously furloughed (and therefore junior) pilots at the bottom of the list, that's just the way the seniority system works.

Suds never said PBS could build lines to 99 hours. Don't make things up. Facts are, Current West book build lines 78-92 range. Kirby offer wants 95. East book is 70-85. So either West book or Kirby costs jobs. "Trough-feeders?" Explain that please.

Active pilots will not lose money in a contract with higher rates and greater vacation.

Vacation parity phase-in numbers were 86 less pilots the first year, 48 the second. Thats real jobs, numbers. Fewer bidding positions equals loss of jobs, equipment downgrade, seat downgrade, block/reserve pay differential loss. Phasing in vacation parity over 4 years costs recalls. If this doesn't make sense to you, theres nothing that will.

Put out a contract or step aside and make room for an organization that will.

It takes 2 sides to write a contract. It's the company thats only willing to do 1-2 days a month mediation. For all the West complaints, I dont remember any mention of the company dragging this out, only its all USAPAs fault. Don't like USAPA? Get rid of them. Hows that card drive going?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Numerous requests have meen sent but have its fallen on deaf ears. Cleary and company control the BPR to a point where even the reps aren't to happy with the leeway they've taken.

No, it would be better for you to put some skin in this game.

Show everyone that resolve you keep talking about. Prove to the company and the west that you're in control.

I've already made two posts on this with no response. Cleary knows that should a TA go to vote, the chances of it passing are very high.

The company is setting the schedule for negotiations. They severely limit the times they meet with the NAC.

There's nothing to vote on, and if you read the company's positions on the negotiating points, I doubt even the west would pass a TA if the company got its way with their proposals right now.

Do you think the west would vote in favor of LOA93 rates and working conditions just to get the Nic? Interesting thought. Is the Nic worth a lousy contract to you folks out west? If so, you need to let your PHX reps know and have them bring that fact up at the next BPR meeting. Get it on record that the Nic is worth any price to you (in general, not you in particular.)

 

[cleardirect]

If you west guys are so sure a contract will pass, Why don't you put some skin in the game? Go to Eric and tell him you want a vote ASAP. But if the vote fails, the Nic award is dead. Otherwise your just testing the water at no risk.

So now Eric controls the BPR? That a single rep can call for an unfinished T/A to be released. Man things must be more desperate that I thought on the east.

I am not so sure that a contract will pass. The Nicolau is just one part of 30 sections. Personally I am going to read the other parts to see if the east NAC has transferred more benefits from the west to the east than I can live with. It may be the west that keeps the east from a contract since we have a single group vote. Interesting huh? The arbitration supporters and the VNIIMN supporters voting together for different reasons.

As far as a single vote and the Nicolau dies. Nice try your lawyer Seham tried that one front of the judge and got nowhere. Why all the deals involving the Nicolau? If all of you are so sure of the east resolve than it should be no problem to have it in there for every vote. How many times have we been told that the east can live with LOA 93 forever?

It has been said before and I will say it again. There is no deal to be made with the Nicolau list, that train left the station two years ago.

When the east controlled NAC ever gets to a T/A and the east controlled BPR ever decides to test the resolve of the pilot group and put something out to a vote then we will see what happens. But suggesting that Eric could bring a vote is just plain uninformed. Sometimes you have to test the waters, that is what polls are for. When is the BPR going to conduct a poll of what the pilots even want in the contract? Are the BPR members so smart and so in tuned with this pilot group they don’t need to ask? What happened to letting the line pilot decide?

 

[Hawkhunter]

Ahhhh yes, east hypocrisy at its finest. <_<

Poor little victim. Truth hurts huh! <_<

 

[electricjet98]

Merry Christmas everyone.

And to you and yours. Hopefully, we'll all enjoy a better 2010!

 

[HPDriver]

Poor little victim. Truth hurts huh! <_<

Victim, no.

You guys are the ones crying about how the company has always screwed you.

Like I said, hypocrisy at its finest once again.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Victim, no.

You guys are the ones crying about how the company has always screwed you.

Like I said, hypocrisy at its finest once again.

Keep trying

 

[Phoenix]

.. Hows that card drive going?

Huh.. whataya mean.. I filled out a card. :huh: But I was told there were less than 200 of them..

 

[Hate2fly]

Yo Clear,

Speaking of Eric.............how will the westies view Eric, Jeff and the other legal scholars within your ranks if the 9th doesn't go your way?

It should be interesting to see if your judge in the desert got it right or wrong.

A DFR based on a seniority proposal! Lets see if the desert judge can change established labor law.

It seems to me you guys out west couldn't wait to adjudicate...............oh well it is only money!

Hate

 

[boeingplt]

if the east NAC

The NAC is one third west and to date there has not been the need for a committee vote, on anything - this came out in a BPR mtg -

 

[N924PS]

Yo Clear,

Speaking of Eric.............how will the westies view Eric, Jeff and the other legal scholars within your ranks if the 9th doesn't go your way?

It should be interesting to see if your judge in the desert got it right or wrong.

A DFR based on a seniority proposal! Lets see if the desert judge can change established labor law.

It seems to me you guys out west couldn't wait to adjudicate...............oh well it is only money!

Hate

Let me guess what happens if it doesn't go according to Seeham.........

Why of course, the Supreme Court of the United States of America! Oh well, it's only money.....well spent? We shall see(ham).......

 

[HPDriver]

Keep trying

Keep trying what?

 

[Tiger 1050]

View attachment cleary_2002.pdf

Interesting read here... Apparently the Gold Standard was not always the Gold Standard in Cleary's eyes. Who'da thunk it... It's crap like this that really shoots holes in your credibility out east. It's so painfully clear what you guys tried to do to the west! No wonder you got the finger and this mess to deal with.

I particularly like this paragraph:

No pilot, regardless of furlough status, can be
guaranteed any particular placement on a merged
list. The only certainty in seniority integration is
that the outcome is never certain until the merger
representatives reach an agreement or, failing a
negotiated solution, the arbitrator issues an award.
Each case presents its own facts and equities, and
each requires a resolution tailor-made to the
situation presented. With that said, the past
provides several examples of arbitrators and
negotiators grappling with the proper seniority
placement of furloughees. These precedents,
while not determinative of future proceedings,
shed light on the kinds of considerations likely to
come into play.