US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[BoeingBoy]

Since I'm undoubtedly one of those you're addressing, I'll respond for just myself. I retired before Nic came out, so didn't have an opportunity to comment on the award in the workplace (this is as close to the workplace as I get since retirement and obiously I've shared my views here). Before my retirement, I freely shared my view in the workplace - that relative position was a fair starting point for integrating lists.

My picture is beside every one of my posts and my name at the bottom. So your "behind the secrecy of a keyboard" doesn't carry any weight with me. I do notice, however, that it applies to you. However, unlike you I can understand a reluctance of posters to reveal their identity. We both know that the company monitors this forum, at least sometimes. Morgan Durant responding to complaints about the ETC or Hub/Wings being down is proof of that. And thanks to our friend USA320Pilot we both know that the company can enforce the employee ethich policy when they want (although the letter he sent Parker, if it was indeed sent and not just posted here, probably had a lot to do with his troubles). Anyway, before accusing others of the cowardly act of posting anonymously, you might examine your reasons for doing the same.

Despite our disagreements, I hope you and yours also have a Happy Holiday and hope you're able to be home with family for the occasion.

Jim

ps - I'm pretty sure that not being "PC" doesn't cover EastUS' PM's although I'm quite sure they express his feelings towards those receiving them (and possibly intentions if given the opportunity). Maybe it's only coincidence that copious quanties of alcohol can suppress inhibitions which leads to such outbursts.

 

[nycbusdriver]

My PM must be off-line.

I didn't get mine yet.

Certainly must be a problem with the "internets."

You probably didn't get mine, either.

 

[Richard]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The issue at hand has been dealt with. I will remind you, however, that discussing other members, or their PM's is also a violation of the rules of the board, and as such, posts referring to the poster and his harassment have been removed as well.

Please continue to post within the guidelines of the rules at the top of this forum.

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

 

[LSS]

Schultz,

"Your Guess" would be wrong on at least one count. The Nicolau list is the US Airways pilot seniority list.

OH... did we ratify a contract when I wasn't paying attention???...

Sorry pal... the list is gathering dust somewhere... but it's not in play... and will never be.. probably til the end of your career or at least until the majority of US pilots retire.

I realize that's what has your jaws jacked... you have this "list"... but it will never see the light of day... regardless of your rhetoric and any court ruling... Only the pilots will decide... not any court!

 

[ClueByFour]

I realize that's what has your jaws jacked... you have this "list"... but it will never see the light of day... regardless of your rhetoric and any court ruling... Only the pilots will decide... not any court!

In the "funny, ha-ha" department, the East pilot group had this very same capability under ALPA. Don't vote for a joint contract. Essentially, you will be right back where you started, and everyone will be a few million poorer.

That's the funny part of USAPA. It's clear (for anyone with a brain) that it was not going to work for it's intended purpose.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Dear Metro,

One last thing, where we'd be right now with the Kirby contract. Instead of TA limit of 302 aircraft, we'd have 250, per Kirby. Right now, pending the outcome of the Addington DFR, I doubt if the company would have signed a new contract unless it had the NIC in it. Aircraft reductions alone generate over 800 furloughs. Add to that another 150 due to Kirby's 99-hour months and 70 less needed with the four years to full vacation parity. Who knows how many PBS would cost. That's a total of over 1,000 furloughs, plus seat and equipment losses, falling mainly on East pilots with a NIC list. That pretty much sums up why East pilots aren't too keen on signing a contract that costs most active pilots money and puts more on the streets. Before you start accusing the NAC of stalling, keep in mind it's the company that only wants to meet once a month under NMB mediation.

Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

Great Post. The facts might confuse most of the West though.

 

[luvn737s]

One last thing, where we'd be right now with the Kirby contract. Instead of TA limit of 302 aircraft, we'd have 250, per Kirby. Right now, pending the outcome of the Addington DFR, I doubt if the company would have signed a new contract unless it had the NIC in it. Aircraft reductions alone generate over 800 furloughs. Add to that another 150 due to Kirby's 99-hour months and 70 less needed with the four years to full vacation parity. Who knows how many PBS would cost. That's a total of over 1,000 furloughs, plus seat and equipment losses, falling mainly on East pilots with a NIC list. That pretty much sums up why East pilots aren't too keen on signing a contract that costs most active pilots money and puts more on the streets. Before you start accusing the NAC of stalling, keep in mind it's the company that only wants to meet once a month under NMB mediation.

Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

The company has retained airplanes it had planned to shed, so the fleet drop is not a foregone conclusion. PBS cannot build a 99 hour line, so the only furlough threat comes from your own trough-feeders. If the losses fall on previously furloughed (and therefore junior) pilots at the bottom of the list, that's just the way the seniority system works.
Active pilots will not lose money in a contract with higher rates and greater vacation. There are outside influences (as there always are) that will affect pilots temporarily, but it is not a function of the contract itself. Pilots will move around the system in response to those influences. But it is not USAPA's job to deny the west pilots the potential benefits of the Nicolau arbitration in order to protect the east pilots from the potential ramifications of it. They do not pick winners and losers, they are to represent ALL the US pilots.

Put out a contract or step aside and make room for an organization that will.

 

[HPDriver]

The company has retained airplanes it had planned to shed, so the fleet drop is not a foregone conclusion. PBS cannot build a 99 hour line, so the only furlough threat comes from your own trough-feeders. If the losses fall on previously furloughed (and therefore junior) pilots at the bottom of the list, that's just the way the seniority system works.
Active pilots will not lose money in a contract with higher rates and greater vacation. There are outside influences (as there always are) that will affect pilots temporarily, but it is not a function of the contract itself. Pilots will move around the system in response to those influences. But it is not USAPA's job to deny the west pilots the potential benefits of the Nicolau arbitration in order to protect the east pilots from the potential ramifications of it. They do not pick winners and losers, they are to represent ALL the US pilots.

Put out a contract or step aside and make room for an organization that will.

Great Post. The facts might confuse most of the East though.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Great Post. The facts might confuse most of the East though.

It is not confusing that a person's (group's) legal right exists, under current guidelines, to vote for status quo to protect their collective interests.

 

[Hawkhunter]

The company has retained airplanes it had planned to shed, so the fleet drop is not a foregone conclusion. PBS cannot build a 99 hour line, so the only furlough threat comes from your own trough-feeders. If the losses fall on previously furloughed (and therefore junior) pilots at the bottom of the list, that's just the way the seniority system works.
Active pilots will not lose money in a contract with higher rates and greater vacation. There are outside influences (as there always are) that will affect pilots temporarily, but it is not a function of the contract itself. Pilots will move around the system in response to those influences. But it is not USAPA's job to deny the west pilots the potential benefits of the Nicolau arbitration in order to protect the east pilots from the potential ramifications of it. They do not pick winners and losers, they are to represent ALL the US pilots.

Put out a contract or step aside and make room for an organization that will.

In other words, "We on the West will benefit far greater with a contract that will give us our new seniority who cares about the East". The benefit of the Nic is to steal our jobs. However, you are correct about one thing. It is USAPAs job to protect all the US pilots. That includes a contract that does protect all the US pilots. That includes East as well. You guys cry the victim so many times that you are starting to believe it. Why dont you just come out and say it. Its all about you!

 

[HPDriver]

It is not confusing that a person's (group's) legal right exists, under current guidelines, to vote for status quo to protect their collective interests.

I'm not arguing that fact and never have.

What is confusing to some of the easties is the notion that the majority of the pilots is going to ride this out for another 3 years.

VNIIMN all you want, but in the end it won't matter.

 

[HPDriver]

Why dont you just come out and say it. Its all about you!

Ahhhh yes, east hypocrisy at its finest. <_<

 

[hp_fa]

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[AWE Dog]

Put out a contract or step aside and make room for an organization that will.

If you west guys are so sure a contract will pass, Why don't you put some skin in the game? Go to Eric and tell him you want a vote ASAP. But if the vote fails, the Nic award is dead. Otherwise your just testing the water at no risk.

 

[HPDriver]

If you west guys are so sure a contract will pass, Why don't you put some skin in the game? Go to Eric and tell him you want a vote ASAP. But if the vote fails, the Nic award is dead. Otherwise your just testing the water at no risk.

Numerous requests have meen sent but have its fallen on deaf ears. Cleary and company control the BPR to a point where even the reps aren't to happy with the leeway they've taken.

No, it would be better for you to put some skin in this game.

Show everyone that resolve you keep talking about. Prove to the company and the west that you're in control.

I've already made two posts on this with no response. Cleary knows that should a TA go to vote, the chances of it passing are very high.