US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Hate2fly]

That explains all the new East posters - the ones that aren't rejoicing about the injunction being lifted by the 9th but instead saying they'll never vote for a contract TA containing the Nic. Oh..wait - that's backwards. If they're saying they won't vote for a TA with Nic then they must figure the Nic will be in any contract TA. Gosh, that means they figure USAPA will lose in the 9th!

Sounds like it's the East that's worried about the 9th...

Jim

Jim,

We don't care about the 9th.............we always have our vote!

Did you get the LOA84 info?

Hate

 

[Metroyet]

I stay in touch with the furlough committee. They're honest about where things are. MDA won't affect me, unless it throws out the NIC. Even then, it will be just for a few months difference over my last 20 years.

If the furlough committee was being honest with you, then you'd know that the MDA suit is about attempting to recover some Cash. You'd know that the statute of Limitations has run out on trying to object to the Nic. award. You'd know that there is zero chance that the MDA suit would throw out the Nic award. You'd know that the MDA suit is stalled because the Plaintiffs have a hard time coming up with lawyer fees and they've failed to show up in court at times.

MDA will have ZERO effect on the Nic. award. That's not what that suit is about anymore. That's the honest truth.

Not to be insulting, but you really don't seem to know the details very well. Perhaps it's just the fact that USAPA has been feeding you so many lies, for so long that you don't know what to believe.

 

[HPDriver]

Yo Metroyet and HPDriver,

Do yourselves a favor and pull any east guy over in the airport and ask him how he will vote with the Nicolau award attached to a contract. Doing it while someone is in the jumpseat is BS. They will always tell you what you want to hear! Do you really think we care what the other 30,000 employees think of us and our right to vote. Guys like you have been the greatest selling point back east.........so that this travesty called the Nic doesn't ever happen. You guys have been frantic ever since the 9th audio hit the airwaves. That ripeness issue must have the desert judge wondering if he let it get to far. I still think he got a little ahead of himself. Premature Adjudication!

Good luck!

Hate

I've done more than a favor. I have, on more than a few occasions, gone down to the CLT crewroom on long sits and have both spoken to and passed out cards with the cactuspilot.com website info on it. The conversations have been very cordial (sure I've had a few eye-rolls, but that to be expected) and informative. I speak to east guys in both PHX, LAX, and LAS and have a regular email exchange with 9 east pilots (3 that live on the west coast, 2 CLT, 1 BOS, and the rest PHL). I've had exactly 2 east jumpseaters and have never brought up the merger stuff. Like you said, you'll get them to agree to anything for a ride home so its pointless.

And just what defines "frantic" for you? I haven't seen much change on these boards since it came out. The rancor is as saucy as ever.

And I honestly don't think the Honorable Judge Wake is having any second thoughts on ripeness.

 

[luvthe9]

Jim,

We don't care about the 9th.............we always have our vote!

Did you get the LOA84 info?

Hate

That's right on the money, funny thing is the top 500 are right along side with the less junior have not seen that here in awhile. I wonder if BoeingBoy is a former Eastern pilot I have a few Fed Ex friends that don't think to much of him taht I think know him well. Hey Jim have you read DB's two letters on LOA 84 yet? get back to us on that.

 

[HPDriver]

Jim,

We don't care about the 9th.............we always have our vote!

Did you get the LOA84 info?

Hate

Why don't you ask Cleary to put the Kirby proposal out to the pilot group for a vote?

That way, you guys can vote it down and show the company, as well as the west pilots, just how strong your resolve is.

That will show everyone who's in charge.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Did you get the LOA84 info?

Hate

Nope. Only what's been posted here on pay rates.

As I've said before, I can build an argument supporting any of several outcomes, from staying on LOA 93 pay at one end to full restoration of LOA 84 pay including the scheduled raisesat the other. Being able to do that tells me that the arbitration will not be a slam dunk.

BTW, for someone not interested in the 9th you sure bring it up a lot...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Isn't that every west pilot? I was told thats why they took jobs at AWE. No money, but quick upgrade in hopes of a merger. That was on the Alpa forum.

Actually, not every West pilot, but you are correct, and in different eras of the company history, diffrent grand payoffs were in play. I believe a poster on the ALPA board would have made such a comment.

The difference and what I was trying to convey was, why would a new hire turn down pay right now in excess of what S/he would make as a captain on loa? I would go further and say, they would not turn down a new contract that had F/O pay even approaching loa? captain pay. It makes absolutely no sense to say a new hire would turn down what amounts to current captain pay now, and remain on sub par F/O pay for a few years(3-5), in order to keep everything seperate so in 3-5 years they can upgrade and continue to make less money than they would have if they voted in a new CBA years ago.

New hires will take the job if it is a better job than the one they leave behind. The high attrition rate at USAirways (east and West) would be part of the equation for them. But bottom line is, I am pretty sure they would know that there are a thing called West pilots, and that those West pilots would all be senior to them, and in a practical sense they too are not going to be able to steal the West pilots jobs.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I wonder if BoeingBoy is a former Eastern pilot

Unless you mean the Eastern United States, no.

I have a few Fed Ex friends that don't think to much of him taht I think know him well.

Don't know anyone at FedEx, well or not. On that general subject, I haven't seen anything from "Gunther" since he said he'd talk to Steve and probably "get an earfull" about me. Must not have been the earfull he was expecting...

Hey Jim have you read DB's two letters on LOA 84 yet? get back to us on that.

Read'em both. And I know DB pretty well - he was on the bid closing committee several years after the US/PI merger. Nice enough guy but a typical lawyer - can make a case for whichever side he wants.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Yo Nic4,

Even your west brothers would vote our way because they will make captain in record time! Money Talks BS Walks!

Really, record time, huh. If you retire 30 a month, that is 360 a year, yes? A new hire, at the bottom of a list of 3000, would have to move up approx 1500 to get to that captain seat. Now of course they might get some widebody f/o pay along the way, but it will take them over 4 years to get the captain seat, all else being equall and we know it never is. Well I got news for you, I shattered that record years ago, Continental pilots were making captain in 2 years just a few years back, and as recent as 2000 AWA pilots were making captain in 4 years.

So explain to me again why a new hire would settle for loa93 f/o pay for an extra 4 years just so in 4 years they could make less money than they would have for the prior 4 years.

 

[BoeingBoy]

New hires will take the job if it is a better job than the one they leave behind. The high attrition rate at USAirways (east and West) would be part of the equation for them. But bottom line is, I am pretty sure they would know that there are a thing called West pilots, and that those West pilots would all be senior to them, and in a practical sense they too are not going to be able to steal the West pilots jobs.

It's only one data point, but that is a description of my nephew. Hired near the front of the last hiring spree (yes, I tried to talk him out of it) and now furloughed. He looked at one thing - with the East having relatively little hiring since 1990 he would be near the top of the list for many years even factoring in the West hiring since 1990.

Put a contract in front of him with a raise in it and he'd vote yes.

Jim

 

[HPDriver]

Put a contract in front of him with a raise in it and he'd vote yes.

Jim

And he's not the only one. In fact, I'd say he's part of the majority.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Put a contract in front of him with a raise in it and he'd vote yes.

Jim

Even one that lowered the min fleet count? Based on where you say he is on the list I doubt it.

 

[Hate2fly]

It's only one data point, but that is a description of my nephew. Hired near the front of the last hiring spree (yes, I tried to talk him out of it) and now furloughed. He looked at one thing - with the East having relatively little hiring since 1990 he would be near the top of the list for many years even factoring in the West hiring since 1990.

Put a contract in front of him with a raise in it and he'd vote yes.

Jim

Jim,

One day of flying with an educated east pilot and your nephew will see the light. By the way looks like ALPA just took another hit from the TWA guys. Good for the TWA boys and my good friend Bud Bensel.

Hate

 

[luvthe9]

And he's not the only one. In fact, I'd say he's part of the majority.

Somebody is starting happy hour early today!!!!!

 

[end_of_USAPA]

I think hp, along with the rest of the west, are being realistic.