US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[HPDriver]

The short term strategy seems to have worked - stonewalling - what do you think the long term consequences may be ?

Payment in full for all that stonewalling.

 

[Metroyet]

My answer is you will never get it ratified slick.

If the Cowardly BPR ever let it out for a vote...then you'd have a chance to prove it. Until then, it's just another desperately hopeful wish. Pilots never vote their self interest. Right? If a quarter of East Captains and the vast majority of the West ever came into agreement, I wonder what would happen?

We'll never know because the fanatical minority that hijacked the merger wouldn't dare let the membership decide. They already know the answer to that question and it scares the hell out of them. Silence is Golden.

 

[AWE Dog]

Who's begging? I'm not the one on LOA 93. I'm the one getting cancellation pay. I'm the one with a better quality of life.

Did you ever think you'd still be making bottom wages after 2 1/2 years?

The next few months are going to move this whole process along rather quickly. In the mean time, you can hope for snapbacks, MDA, and whatever else gets you through the trip.

Spending $1.8 mil on a suit that may not even be ripe is not begging. LOL Are you getting a check for $10K Jan 1,? I wouldn't be so sure about your quality of life statement. I have flown 3 days in the past 3 months. I'll need a landing by the end of January to stay current.

 

[AWE Dog]

If a quarter of East Captains and the vast majority of the West ever came into agreement, I wonder what would happen?

Isn't that kinda like the Alpa decert thing? If all of the west and some of the east vote to keep Alpa, Usapa doesn't have a chance.

 

[HPDriver]

Are you getting a check for $10K Jan 1,?

Do the math slick.

With what the company saved paying you LOA 93 rates these past few years, you're actually getting a small portion of your money back.

The company is pocketing the difference.

Congrats on your $10K!!

 

[Hate2fly]

Do the math slick.

With what the company saved paying you LOA 93 rates these past few years, you're actually getting a small portion of your money back.

The company is pocketing the difference.

Congrats on your $10K!!

Yo HpDriver,

AWE DOG is pretty good with math and money! I called him during the furlough and offered him a 100K job and he turned me down numerous times. He didn't touch an airplane for 4 years. Family is a wonderful thing!

You westies still do not understand the transition agreement! We get our vote no matter what you think!
This will all play out over time.............Addington/LOA93 pay restoration and MDA. Until then we in the east are less than 3 years away from our massive east attrition...........they will have to hire 30 guys a month for the rest of our east careers just to keep up with retirements. Every seat change on our side with attrition brings automatic pay raises to everyone on the east list. That is why I always tell you guys every new hire coming to the east will always vote with the east. That is why our voting rights are so important to the east pilots. As other posters have told you before, we don't care what you think of us and we will do whatever it takes to keep you on your side.

It really is that simple! And we do have the money to fight!

Hate

 

[nic4us]

You westies still do not understand the transition agreement! ....................... Until then we in the east are less than 3 years away from our massive east attrition...........they will have to hire 30 guys a month for the rest of our east careers just to keep up with retirements. Every seat change on our side with attrition brings automatic pay raises to everyone on the east list. That is why I always tell you guys every new hire coming to the east will always vote with the east. That is why our voting rights are so important to the east pilots. As other posters have told you before, we don't care what you think of us and we will do whatever it takes to keep you on your side.

It really is that simple! And we do have the money to fight!

Talk about not understanding the TA, or the demographics involved.

First you would have to recall said 30 West pilots a month to keep up with the attrition. Once the furlough pool is exhausted, then the company could hire new hires. On top of that F/Os around the industry make more than an east captain, exactly what new hires are going to forego pay so you can steal a West pilots job? They would be completely stupid to take less pay in the hopes of a quick upgrade to make less pay, but then again, we have witnessed dumber things happen out east.

Second, as probably in excess of 30% of those retirees, will retire from the right seat, the upgrades while sizable, are somewhat less.

Third, as more and more of your pilots reach their 60th birthday, the east will have trouble staffing international flights, and there is nothing in your contract or the Fair treatment of experienced pilots act that protects that flying for the east.

 

[HPDriver]

Yo HpDriver,

AWE DOG is pretty good with math and money! I called him during the furlough and offered him a 100K job and he turned me down numerous times. He didn't touch an airplane for 4 years. Family is a wonderful thing!

Yo Hate,

I'm still amazed at how many of you east guys have these great, high paying businesses yet you fight like there is no tomorrow for these crappy LCC jobs. Sounds like someones is sprinkling a bit of hyperbole in their posts.

You westies still do not understand the transition agreement! We get our vote no matter what you think!
This will all play out over time.............Addington/LOA93 pay restoration and MDA. Until then we in the east are less than 3 years away from our massive east attrition...........they will have to hire 30 guys a month for the rest of our east careers just to keep up with retirements. Every seat change on our side with attrition brings automatic pay raises to everyone on the east list. That is why I always tell you guys every new hire coming to the east will always vote with the east. That is why our voting rights are so important to the east pilots. As other posters have told you before, we don't care what you think of us and we will do whatever it takes to keep you on your side.

It really is that simple! And we do have the money to fight!

Hate

We understand the TA perfectly well and I completely understand your right to a vote. But I also understand your history and know there is a high probability of a TA going through with even a relatively small increase in pay and QoL improvements (think GAGgers).

I can tell you for a fact that your officers understand this, Rowe understands this, and most east posters on this board understand this. Their only tactic is to prevent a TA from ever seeing the light of day because they know the chances of a majority of east pilots voting against it are slim.

Look at your last vote. Those numbers that didn't vote are the ones that are going to carry the next TA (with Nic) onto this property and allow me to finally move to CLT and upgrade.

And don't worry about the money thing. We're doing fine. And once we get damages awarded, it'll be that much easier.

 

[AWE Dog]

Talk about not understanding the TA, or the demographics involved.

They would be completely stupid to take less pay in the hopes of a quick upgrade to make less pay, but then again, we have witnessed dumber things happen out east.

Isn't that every west pilot? I was told thats why they took jobs at AWE. No money, but quick upgrade in hopes of a merger. That was on the Alpa forum.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Yo HpDriver,

AWE DOG is pretty good with math and money! I called him during the furlough and offered him a 100K job and he turned me down numerous times. He didn't touch an airplane for 4 years. Family is a wonderful thing!

You westies still do not understand the transition agreement! We get our vote no matter what you think!
This will all play out over time.............Addington/LOA93 pay restoration and MDA. Until then we in the east are less than 3 years away from our massive east attrition...........they will have to hire 30 guys a month for the rest of our east careers just to keep up with retirements. Every seat change on our side with attrition brings automatic pay raises to everyone on the east list. That is why I always tell you guys every new hire coming to the east will always vote with the east. That is why our voting rights are so important to the east pilots. As other posters have told you before, we don't care what you think of us and we will do whatever it takes to keep you on your side.

It really is that simple! And we do have the money to fight!

Hate

Hate-

Bully for you and your vote. YOU run the pilot club, what has that gotten anyone? Enjoy your $10, I got my $10k every year since the merger and will continue to get mine even after yours has run out. (check out the pay rates, mine is about $20k more)

I'm a member and I get to vote too. But the dear leader and the politburo hasn't given us much to vote on, except the tail chasing pension expedition.

Since you east folk out so much smarter and well versed in all this show us the way.

By the way I've seen more organized poo fights in the monkey cage at the zoo than what usapa has shown us.

 

[HPDriver]

Isn't that every west pilot? I was told thats why they took jobs at AWE. No money, but quick upgrade in hopes of a merger. That was on the Alpa forum.

Wow, wonder what brand crystal ball they were using.

And how about showing us the post off the ALPA forum.

Man, there are some stupid things posted on this board, and your post hits the top three for sure.

 

[Hate2fly]

Talk about not understanding the TA, or the demographics involved.

First you would have to recall said 30 West pilots a month to keep up with the attrition. Once the furlough pool is exhausted, then the company could hire new hires. On top of that F/Os around the industry make more than an east captain, exactly what new hires are going to forego pay so you can steal a West pilots job? They would be completely stupid to take less pay in the hopes of a quick upgrade to make less pay, but then again, we have witnessed dumber things happen out east.

Second, as probably in excess of 30% of those retirees, will retire from the right seat, the upgrades while sizable, are somewhat less.

Third, as more and more of your pilots reach their 60th birthday, the east will have trouble staffing international flights, and there is nothing in your contract or the Fair treatment of experienced pilots act that protects that flying for the east.

Yo Nic4,

Even your west brothers would vote our way because they will make captain in record time! Money Talks BS Walks!

Moving up is moving up! The west one size fits all pay with very little attrition......oh that hurts!

Age 60 Int'l ops is already having issues for the company..........440 over sixty already and 720 by this time next year...........it only gets worse. Not our problem that the company has to carry more east pilots on the list for the over age sixty issue. More east pilot positions is a good thing.

Hate

 

[AWE Dog]

And how about showing us the post off the ALPA forum.

That was prior to Nick when the west was making their case. I'm wrong HP? Then tell my why anybody would take a job at America West? Was it the big pay? The great retirement? OH no , it must have been the benefits. And to think I was was buying the quick upgrade thing. Do I have to go back thinking that nobody else would hire them scenario?

 

[Metroyet]

I
Isn't that kinda like the Alpa decert thing? If all of the west and some of the east vote to keep Alpa, Usapa doesn't have a chance.

You do realize that USAPA won the election by less than 300 votes right? That was also at the height of the Nic. Frenzy, before USAPA failed you time and again, when your "industry leading" contract was only 3 months away. When the answer to all your prayers was dumping ALPA. Before the lofty promises of Lee Seham were shown to be bald faced lies.

Here we are nearly two years later. DFR conviction, probable loss in the 9th, innumerable broken promises, no contract, fallen further behind in industry rates, no indication whatsoever that the company plans on using any other list than the Nic. Absolutely no progress in negotiations, zero leverage and even less respect.

Do you think there are at least 300 pilots over there that are ready to move on? Who knows? Your BPR does. Which is why this "most democratic" of union for ALL US Airways pilots will NEVER let the pilots vote. Because to do so will open Pandoras Box and their little dream of being "take charge" tough guys explodes in their face...(it already has they just refuse to acknowledge reality)

 

[HPDriver]

That was prior to Nick when the west was making their case. I'm wrong HP? Then tell my why anybody would take a job at America West? Was it the big pay? The great retirement? OH no , it must have been the benefits. And to think I was was buying the quick upgrade thing. Do I have to go back thinking that nobody else would hire them scenario?

First job that was offered to me out of the commuters and I like it so much I stayed. AWA was by far a great place to work - everyone knew everyone else and we gave a damn.

Now its become infested with the east way of doing business.

So much more to a job than the stuff you pointed out. But now my wife's side lives on the east coast and we've decided to move closer to them. I don't chase upgrades, but its a nice option to have when I move out there. Heck, senior FO would be fine with me as well.

And please don't pull the AA crap of "superior pilot" hiring. You know as well as I do how the hiring in this industry works. The should be beneath even you (though not by much).